The fighter class - What are your opinions

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Magrock
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Magrock »

eggmceye wrote:* shields reduce magic damage taken (still mucking around with the numbers).
Around 25% seems fair.
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Akyla »

Hate to ruin the fun but a simple question:

With zerker stance on (+25% dmg received) and the new tactics bonus (-25% dmg received), won't that nullify eachother?

I mean I already take alot of dmg with a 2h weapon in BM but just curious how this is going to work.
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by eggmceye »

good point :S
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Akyla »

Damn shoulda kept my mouth shut :knife:
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Grunkk »

With the bonus, do you need 100 tactics to get the bonus?
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Aerie »

Grunkk wrote:With the bonus, do you need 100 tactics to get the bonus?
it should add a % as you go. at 25 tactics, you used to have .5 def added, at 50, you had 1, 75 1.5, and 100 you had 2.
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by eggmceye »

yeh it scales, so say it reduces damage by 50% at 100% damage (just saying) it would reduce damage by 25% at 50% tactics , etc
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Grunkk »

Wait so tactics may end up being able to reduce up to 50% damage? :O
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Akyla »

No, he just gave that as an example.
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Severian »

eggmceye wrote:nah he wants all fighter stat builds to be 80/20 instead of either 90/10 or 75/25
if I did that then I would have to do rogues to be all 20/80 too - not really interested right now in forcing everyone into a respec

but I will do shield bash I think
Nice. Thanks Egg. I hope you make these proposed changes live soon :3

I'm going to make one last attempt on the stat split though:

The only problem with the current split is that every fighter would probably become a polearm user since polearms have the highest 1h and 2h dps, as well as the nicer stat split.

Here are the fighter 2H weapons ranked by average damage
(M: mace, A: axe, S: sword, P: polearm):
M - Lucern Hammer: 2d6 @ 2.9 [avg dmg: 4.83]
A - 2H Axe: 1d11 @ 2.4 [avg dmg: 5.00]
P - Hoe: 2d5 @ 2.3 [avg dmg: 5.22]
A - Labrys: 3d4 @ 2.8 [avg dmg: 5.36]
P - Glaive: 2d5 @ 2.2 [avg dmg: 5.45]
S - Claymore: 2d8 @ 3.2 [avg dmg: 5.63]
M - Warhammer: 2d7 @ 2.8 [avg dmg: 5.71]
M - Great Maul: 3d6 @ 3.5 [avg dmg: 6.00]
P - Scythe: 3d4 @ 2.4 [avg dmg: 6.25]
P - Halberd: 3d6 @ 2.8 [avg dmg: 7.50]

It becomes quite clear what 2H weapon fighters will favor. With an even stat split, fighters would at least be tempted to try different weapons; they would have to change stats everytime they wanted to change from swords/axes to polearms/maces.

Also, if you want to keep a 25:75 split on rogues, you could make the split 75:25 for fighters.


Nevermind. XD
Thanks for the fighter update :3


Akyla wrote:Hate to ruin the fun but a simple question:

With zerker stance on (+25% dmg received) and the new tactics bonus (-25% dmg received), won't that nullify eachother?

I mean I already take alot of dmg with a 2h weapon in BM but just curious how this is going to work.
I propose that berserker stance instead does: +50% damage taken (with 100% tactics, this becomes +25% damage taken) and +25% damage given (instead of weapon speed, since weapons speeds will be adjusted).
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Akyla »

Eh 2h weapons don't need damage, they need speed.
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Grunkk »

What about a 'sever' ability where you can cut the shieldhand or swordhand off and cause bleeding (Disarm + Small cleave)
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Severian »

Akyla wrote:Eh 2h weapons don't need damage, they need speed.
they are getting speed ... 25% ... this is for berserker stance
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Akyla »

Severian wrote:I propose that berserker stance instead does: +50% damage taken (with 100% tactics, this becomes +25% damage taken) and +25% damage given (instead of weapon speed, since weapons speeds will be adjusted).
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Severian »

Akyla wrote:
Severian wrote:I propose that berserker stance instead does: +50% damage taken (with 100% tactics, this becomes +25% damage taken) and +25% damage given (instead of weapon speed, since weapons speeds will be adjusted).
yes ... but there will ALREADY be a 25% speed boost ... you don't necessarily need two 25% speed boosts ... thus my suggestion ... please read carefully XD
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Akyla »

Well, when I think of going berzerk, its like wildly flailing away at your enemy at the cost of self-defense. 2h weapons are already the hardest hitting weapons in the game, make then hit even harder? They just fail because they attack so slowly. 25% always-on speed may put them over-the top vs dual wielded daggers on the DPS table, so what exactly is needed?
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Akyla »

Magrock wrote:
eggmceye wrote:* shields reduce magic damage taken (still mucking around with the numbers).
Around 25% seems fair.
Maybe more of a pain in the ass to code, but the block rate (IE buckler vs BR tower +6 def) could somehow play into how much % of magic is resisted?

Also, with the tactics bonus, wouldn't that give shields 50% less magic damage taken? PLUS tank stance? doesn't that equal 100% OR would it be 50% - 50%? 25% - 25% -50%? Just shield + tactics alone would give 25% + 25%.

Just curious how the coding works. Like if tactics + zerk stance would stack so they nullify eachother, would a shield + tactics + tank = 0 magic damage taken? Hell, who needs mani spam ROFL. Is it possible to mut-ex stance vs tactics/shield? That would fix the previous Eggleton idea of zerk speed + tactics bonus. :?
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Severian »

Akyla wrote:Well, when I think of going berzerk, its like wildly flailing away at your enemy at the cost of self-defense. 2h weapons are already the hardest hitting weapons in the game, make then hit even harder? They just fail because they attack so slowly. 25% always-on speed may put them over-the top vs dual wielded daggers on the DPS table, so what exactly is needed?
Its easier to think of stances as damage modifiers: tanking = -50% taken and -50% dealt; berserking = +50% taken and +25% dealt. And have the 25% speed modifier applied to 2H weapons so they essentially attack with the same speeds as 1H weapons (roughly speaking - you can look at the exact numbers yourself).

You can think of berserking as someone who will risk taking more damage to deal more damage, like someone purposely taking more blows in order to hit more.


Akyla wrote:
Magrock wrote:
eggmceye wrote:* shields reduce magic damage taken (still mucking around with the numbers).
Around 25% seems fair.
Maybe more of a pain in the ass to code, but the block rate (IE buckler vs BR tower +6 def) could somehow play into how much % of magic is resisted?

Also, with the tactics bonus, wouldn't that give shields 50% less magic damage taken? PLUS tank stance? doesn't that equal 100% OR would it be 50% - 50%? 25% - 25% -50%? Just shield + tactics alone would give 25% + 25%.

Just curious how the coding works. Like if tactics + zerk stance would stack so they nullify eachother, would a shield + tactics + tank = 0 magic damage taken? Hell, who needs mani spam ROFL. Is it possible to mut-ex stance vs tactics/shield? That would fix the previous Eggleton idea of zerk speed + tactics bonus. :?
The damage will probably never fall to 0. I don't think egg would add all the modifiers and then apply them. Its more likely that there will be categories of modifiers and that each is applied to a damage amount, so have tanking stance on(-50% dmg), 100% tactics (-25% dmg) and using a shield (-25% magic damage) would probably result in you taking: 1*0.5 *0.75 *0.75 = 0.28125% of the original magic damage.

So in other words, if my assumption is right, then going fully defensive, you would take just over a quarter of the original damage. Not however that this does not take into account magic resistance. I'm not exactly sure how magic resistance works, but I think its like a saving throw, you either have enough MR and resist the spell, taking less damage, or you don't and take full damage.
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Akyla »

So.... you don't understand how MR works yet you think you know how something works that isn't implemented yet? I was just pointing it out to Egg because that is a possible MEGA cheese. Pls hush.
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Re: The fighter class - What are your opinions

Post by Magrock »

Two handed weapons are slow but I don’t use them for speed.
1) They hit much harder than one handed ones in the first shot. This happens regardless of speed.
2) Faster weapons have a negative damage modifier (DPS is lower than normally calculated). This was done many years ago to balance out DPS.
3) Spell enchantment speed is balanced over speed (Slower weapons are more likely to cast spells when they hit – a big plus when taking that first shot).

I want to suggest increasing damage for one handed weapons if you don’t use anything in the other hand.
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