moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

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eggmceye
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moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by eggmceye »

crafting revised, part 1

firstly big thanx to Rusty for putting up with me last week
also big thanx to Chris for basically getting the ball rolling on the revision - he knew by broad goals, I said make a spreadsheet, he made one, and here we are

so, my broad goals for revising crafting (especially weaponsmith, armourer, tailor) were:
* make it less boring
* make it useful
* make it faster
* make it not create 100s of items to be thrown away or flood merchs with or converted to gold
* not ruin hunting by bringing back enchanting
* not bringing back enchanting to make the old crafts useful

so I after 25-30 hrs of coding here is stage one of my crafting revision.

major crafting changes
i) crafting speed: you used to need to make about 16000 items to get to 100% - now it's 1100
ii) the time between crafted objects (the cooloff) used to be a flat 2.5 sec but is now scaled to the item skill req - from between 1 second and 12 seconds. The harder the item the longer the cooloff. New: if a crafted item won't bump your skill then the cooloff is a flat 2sec.
iii) you can unmake any item with a 'wand of deconstruction' found at all good wand merchant ... it gives you back all the ingredients less 1
iv) tinker, alch, inscript are currently unchanged
v) for weapsmith, armourer, tailor, woodcraft, you can make all the plain weaps & wearbles by up to around 20% skill (it bumps till 40%)
vi) after 30% you can make either tinted items (copper, gold etc) and even make magic items (defense, attack and stats only)
vii) crafted magic items are soulbound - max stats on crafted items are: attack is max +5, defense + 4 and stats + 15
viii) you can use the deconstruction wand on magic items to recover magic ingots. Infact this is the only way to get magic ingots
ix) some itms cannot be made NOR deconstructed - eg vamp weapons.
x) the interface has changed greatly. You no longer use a tinted tool - just a plain one. If items you can make are tintable (ie can me made with a fancy ingot) you will be prompted to select the ingot (or cloth or whatever) to make the item with, and a 2nd menu appears to select the item to make. So tintable items have 2 menus. Stuff like inscription is unchanged with 1 menu, as nothing is tintable.
xi) the craft lists on your client now show the materials required. Items that are in dark grey will not bump your skill + and are made at a flat speed of 2 sec max

minor crafting changes
i) improved pots (including mega) now just use reagants rather than plain pots, but more of them of course
ii) added steel armour (make steel ingots from ash and iron ore, make ash from smelting logs) - steel is good but not as good as BR
iii) weapon smith skill order is approximate to weapon dps, so rondels/claymores are harder than hoes/daggers
iv) rewrote disenchant - no longer get gems from it, gems now drop and can be found mining - disenchant basically strips magic off items (and soulboundness)
v) removed vamp log/ore etc from alchemy
vi) removed tinted tools from tinker
vii) moved pocket knife to tinker
viii) at 100 skill you are still not guaranteed to make anything, so u may fail making those fancy house scrolls that req 100% skill
ix) can make tinted slings
x) removed all jewellery from tinker except for the ring needed to make regen ring - I'll probably add jeweller as a skill later
xi) logging only bumps yr woodcraft to 10%, but finding tinted logs bumps yr woodcraft up to 10% past min skill to find them

other fixes:
- rusty's polypile v2
- networking: many sets of pkts are now combined and compressed, huge network savings, ppl will complain abt lag anyway
- players are auto reset to bind town if they logout in a dungeon (there is 10 mins grace however)
- only gloves of attack that should drop are u/a weight - fixed, was bug
- UM: hp bonus changed to tgt lvl+50
- VUM: hp bonus changed to 75+tgt lvl*1.5
- monsters won't drop body parts in non-pvp maps (ie they won't drop in towns, shrines etc)

I think that is all. Like I said this is phase 1, meaning there is more to come - this was mostly engine work - I will expand crafting a lot more now at some later time.

There is one little flaw: On PD you can't drop s/b items to deconstruct them (this was changed on pd for some reason).
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Rusty76 »

You can drop soulbound items outside of your house. Tested it and it let me do it.

a couple minor things with the new crafting:
sometimes if the name of the thing you are going to craft is too long, you cant see the material quantity needed in the () at the end.
if you use F11 and you run out of materials you still have to wait the cooloff before you can craft something else even though you didn't craft anything.

I really like the new crafting, It gives you alot of options when you are trying to get materials to train up your skill. I deconstructed alot of the crappy cloth and leather items I had and used the materials I got to help train my tailoring skill. Crafting feels much more dynamic now.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by LaughingCoyote »

So if you had a copper claymore + 5 and you wanted a copper greatmaul + 5 instead, the new crafting changes allow you to convert the claymore into copper ingots of attack + 5 which you can then use to make the great maul? Every attribute is fixed with each other from the weapon, to the ingot, to the new item... untinted ingots + 5 AS can only become untinted weapons + 5 AS... otherwise you'd have old enchanting back again.

There's going to be a lot of updates required in the manual. :mrgreen:

P.S. Not sure if its a bug or feature, but you can use ingots + MR from armour and make weapons + MR. Not really cheesable I guess.
Last edited by LaughingCoyote on Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by eggmceye »

The fine print in the op says attack,def, stat items only - MR being allowed was a stupid bug, fixing it now.
Also I'm allowing dropping of soulbound items on PD - can anyone remind of why I disabled this this year?? something to do with dropping a soubound item, killing yrself and picking it up to inherit it I think ....
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Keighn »

I wish this was either menu driven or you could deconstruct massive stacks. 1 item at a time is annoying to deconstruct.

Edit - well at least I can shift f9 the stack til it is deconstructed. Just takes time.

EDIT AGAIN - Can't deconstruct rings or necklaces.
Last edited by Keighn on Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by LaughingCoyote »

eggmceye wrote: ii) the time beteween crafted objects (the cooloff) used to be a flat 2.5 sec but is now scaled to the item skill req - from between 1 second and 12 seconds. The harder the item the longer the cooloff.
This doesn't seem right.... I have GM Tinkering and it takes about 4-5 seconds to make a stud (55% lvl req) and about 3 seconds for smelting tongs (30%). I'm pretty certain it wasn't this slow before. I like the idea of varying cool-off, but is the length of cool-off period fixed to the % skill required to make it, or is it relative to your current skill and the % required?

I guess the former is a lot easier to implement while the latter would be more convenient in-game (especially when you're just making items for other crafting skills), but meh, the whole thing is a massive improvement on what the crafting system was like before. :)
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eggmceye wrote:pretty cool having vigour put in the manual after 14 years X-D
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Keighn »

Field plate only takes 36% to make. Talk about a "NERF." This game is turning totally pussified. I just started to do some more inscription on my LOTL char at 55% and each scroll was raising it 1%. Good fucking god.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Bugbo »

Imagine the dropping of soulbound items was to keep players from dropping res stones. So now monster parts will only drop in arena type maps? I could understand making them only drop in dungeons, but there aren't that many pvp maps in the game, are there?
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by eggmceye »

Keighn wrote:Field plate only takes 36% to make. Talk about a "NERF." This game is turning totally pussified. I just started to do some more inscription on my LOTL char at 55% and each scroll was raising it 1%. Good fucking god.
are you just roleplaying an asshole or what
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Catherine »

Testing new crafting has totally derailed my attempts on the LotL ladder [but, methinks I'm rusty anyhow - people are zooming past me anyhow!], so some prelim feedback, jumbled from my notes:

New menus make sense, and they work with F11. Maybe there could be some kind of 'cool-down' crafting display thing (I was thinking a tiny moon phase, differently coloured) - purely cosmetic, but there's no real indication of the different lengths of processes. Interesting one, /g <text> interrupts auto-make. (This is known, I think, as it has been requested that you can chat during fishing). Being biased, the smaller the item the quicker would be logical, although I get that some small things are complicated - pocket watches for instance.

The highlighting on which craft will raise skill is a great idea - could do with a bit more highlight / colour differential though. Coloured builds via class basis (inscription) is a neat touch. Pure laziness on my part - but how feasible would a column be for how much of a resource a build uses be? e.g. '3' next to leather pants and so on.

Disenchant wands - as far as I can tell, they're only good for priests. i.e. disenchant a dropped weapon, bless it, then divine hammer it yourself for a bigger plus. I can't see the use for other classes. On the plus side, they work on blessed_weapons, even though the engine doesn't consider them magical [non-green]. Perhaps there could be a way to use disenchanted stuff in crafting instead of an ingot? e.g. a BR LS +1 drops - you disenchant it, you can then craft and add a greater plus? Disenchant wands would have to be a rare / very rare drop for this to be feasible. Although they do break (a lot!). Disenchant doesn't bump enchanting skill though, I think.

Crafting giving magical ++ - not got to this stage, however, I'd like it to still use some of the old enchanting stuff. Although IJO + soul gems are "fiddly", I think making magic stuff should have some fiddle involved.

Alchemy / old crafting stuff. Alchemy made tinted ingots. Vamp ones don't exist now? [there's me cursing that I didn't make x10,000 vamp ingots on reg, but hey :P ) - but we've cut out the 'middle man' of tinkering, which used to make all the tinted crafting items. So now its just (alchemy + ingot) + smith / armourer hammer = magic item?

There's lots of items now that you can't build - damn me for not stockpiling them for house decorations. :/ Esp. Reinforced flasks - which still drop (filled), and are used in a quest [Mon-Ferrato]. This includes all the items required to make said flasks [silver sheets etc].

Tomes randomly drop as boss loot - which is cool - and the code for making them useful seems to be in [e.g. I've only had priest ones drop as a priest] - I presume this uses the same mechanics as 'res stone =/= drop if in inv'? However, a gremlin dropping a divine hammer tome seems a bit off (although great! :) ). Being able to craft tomes might be over-powered [even if soulbound, people would crack out disenchanting wands + :cheese:] but there's scope for inscription + tinkering to make books.


Small idea - new items (tinkering made): Tool box / Leather tool case etc etc. Reduces the weight of carried crafting tools, with limitations (e.g. maybe a leather tool case can only take x4; hammer / sewing kit / scissors / quill). Just a thought - at the moment, str based classes still get a massive advantage in being able to shift stuff around. Potion boxes / bandoleers etc would be nice, and mechanics [already in] for potions breaking on you would be cool, if cruel.

Woodsman's axes are uncraftable (??) and still break. :sadpanda:

Might be luck, but not seen any smelting tongs drop. However, some silly buffed ones are a quest reward [+3 NV from memory, one of Kyb's Bakyre quests]


More feedback as I craft the old fashioned way, and see how things go.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Keighn »

It wouldn't matter if you had a million vampy ingots as you can't craft anything with them. I've already tried. So their rubbish bin items. Same goes for vampire dust. Wasted drop space. Dust should be eliminated from drops as it is pointless now.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by LaughingCoyote »

Catherine wrote: There's lots of items now that you can't build - damn me for not stockpiling them for house decorations. :/ Esp. Reinforced flasks - which still drop (filled), and are used in a quest [Mon-Ferrato]. This includes all the items required to make said flasks [silver sheets etc].
Not totally sure what you're on about. You can still make silver sheets from silver ingots (with smithing) and then reinforced flasks from silver sheets & flasks. Unless egg changed it recently, or its different on PD.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Catherine »

Potential problem with wood crafting:

At 66.7 skill, I can get normal, ash & oak logs [so far - this might be incorrect], however, nothing I can craft with oak / ash bumps my skill anymore. I'm hoping that logging ash [oak no longer bumps it] can get me to 70, and the next tier.

I'll have to read the wiki closer to see the cut off skill points for higher logs.

To craft Silverleaf items you will need a Silverleaf Pocket Knife. You will not be able to find Silverleaf Logs until 80% Woodcrafting.

Not sure if logging ash will take me 65 -> 80, if it doesn't, then the skill is broken.


[edit]

Skill gains from ash stop at 68.9%.

Wood crafting is currently broken, unless you can use alchemy [ebony] to raise it further :(


Tailoring:

Hitting 50% [cloth / leather] allows no further gains from making items. Reading up on the wiki to see if I can bump it. Time to raise tinkering!
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Keighn »

I don't know if deconstruction wands drop but you're supposed to use them on magical items to construct enchanted wood or ingots. With that you use your hammer/knife to make magical weapons that take more % to raise. If deconstrtuction wands don't drop, then LOTL characters are fucked as far as higher crafting goes via weaponsmithing/armourer/woodcrafting.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by ion »

simply logging ash got me to 75.2% woodcrafting and it was raising very weird. There would be no bump for a few logs and then it would bump anywhere from 0.6% to 1% two logs in a row. so do you need alchemy to make veno/ebony logs to get to the next level?
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Catherine »

Disenchanting wands drop; deconstruction ones don't.


:sadpanda:
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Onyxt »

Catherine wrote:Disenchanting wands drop; deconstruction ones don't.


:sadpanda:
They drop its just not as common as the enchanting/polypile wands. I've found 2 so far from dragons, which means lowbie mobs like goblins should drop them as well, since they drop similar items.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Catherine »

As I said - disenchanting wands drop.

These aren't the same as deconstructing
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by Onyxt »

Catherine wrote:As I said - disenchanting wands drop.

These aren't the same as deconstructing
I know this, and thats what I was talking about notice I said enchanting wandS.
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Re: moa patch 0.96 - crafting revision stage one and other mods

Post by ChrisCooper »

Catherine wrote:There's lots of items now that you can't build - damn me for not stockpiling them for house decorations. :/ Esp. Reinforced flasks - which still drop (filled), and are used in a quest [Mon-Ferrato]. This includes all the items required to make said flasks [silver sheets etc].
I thought so at first, but silver sheets have moved from the weaponsmith skill to the armourer skill.
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