EUO Moon Phase Calculator

[DrRude]

Greetings, all,

As a relative noob to the EUO, it didn't take me long to get bit by a Werewolf. I know the formula for the cure but haven't taken the time to focus on it yet. Being a Lycan was pretty liberating for awhile until I kept finding myself in situations where I'd transform and, due to dependence on some +STR gear, suddenly I'd find myself over-burdened or dead because I was zapped by guards in town or poisoned in a swamp. That inspired me to start this little pet project -- coming up with an EUO Moon Phase Calculator. Eventually I'd like to whip up a small program in Javascript or PHP to contribute to the EUO community for possible inclusion in either the Wiki, the forums, or somewhere that us noob Lycanthrops or Lunarphiles can get access to it.

For the sake of this post let's define Real Time as "RT" and New Sosaria Time as "EUO".

The upside is that I've got a decent breakdown of how time works in EUO as compared to the real world and I'm pretty accurate at being able to chart when the next Full Moon is.

The downside is that it only works if I get a fix on one of the moon phases during that particular 24 hour period (preferably the New Moon). Although the pattern doesn't change from day to day, the actual real time offset does.

So, for example, on the morning of 12/30/08, a Lycanthropy transformation hit during a Full Moon at midnight (EUO) at 6:25am EST (RT) and lasted until 6:00am (EUO) or 6:31am EST (RT). Using a simple formula, I was able to use a simple spreadsheet to chart out the following:

Date 12/30/08
Full Moon
Midnight | Dawn
06:25:00 AM | 06:31:00 AM
12:25:00 PM | 12:31:00 PM
06:25:00 PM | 06:31:00 PM
12:25:00 AM | 12:31:00 AM
06:25:00 AM | 06:31:00 AM

(using the same formula I could've calculated all of the moon phases but I left them out for simplicity sake)

For the rest of that day, anytime I had a few minutes to log into EUO to confirm my predicted Full Moons I seemed to be pretty much spot on as to when I was going to Wolf Out. Unfortunately, the next day -- no dice. There was some kind of shift in the time offset RT. Granted, when it comes to charting Moon Phases this happens in real life, too, and some formulas are more accurate than others (but ultimately no more than 1 day off).

I'm not sure if that offset is adjusted based on the date, something odd like usage or server lag, or just completely random.

If anyone has any input, insight, time/date stamps or even snippets of code to contribute it'd be greatly appreciated.

A portion of my current notes are below:

-------------------------------
Time Breakdown:

Real Minutes to EUO days is 24:1 ratio.

60 secs = 1 hour
1 min = 1 hour
24 mins = a full day
12 mins = 12 hours
6 mins = 6 hours

1 hour = 2.5 days

3 hours = 7.5 days *** Halfway point (New Moon)
6 hours = 15 days *** One Full Moon Cycle (Full Moon)
9 hours = 22.5 days *** Halfway point (New Moon)
12 hours = 30 days **** One Full Moon Cycle (Full Moon)
15 hours = 37.5 days *** Halfway point (New Moon)
18 hours = 45 days *** One Full Moon Cycle (Full Moon)
21 hours = 52.5 days *** Halfway point (New Moon)
24 hours = 60 days *** One Full Moon Cycle (Full Moon)

NOTE: This breakdown doesn't include the other moon phases yet. Every 6 hours in real time is one full moon cycle, both waning and waxing. New Moon is the midpoint between full moons. Means that when a New Moon appears a full moon will come in 3 hours real time.

------------------------------

[Bugbo]

If there's a full moon every 6 hours then one EUO day is equivilant to 45 minutes real time. This is because the phase of the moon changes every night in EUO. Though it would be nice to know what phase the moon is in or what time of the day it is for each of the servers.

[Rusty76]

Probably the reason your calculations were off was due to server lag or due to a delay caused by the server being reset. Also a DM has the ability to reset the time to whatever they want, but I really don't see why they'd do that. This unfortunately will make trying to equate a specific real time to a specific EUO time pretty much impossible. Best thing to do is log on and see what the current moon phase and time is then plan accordingly.

[DrRude]

If there's a full moon every 6 hours then one EUO day is equivilant to 45 minutes real time. This is because the phase of the moon changes every night in EUO. Though it would be nice to know what phase the moon is in or what time of the day it is for each of the servers.

Unless I'm mistaken, EUO is also on a 24 hour clock.

From Midnight to 6am in EUO lasts about 6 minutes Real Time (RT). That is 1/4 of a day EUO, thus a full EUO day is 6 * 4 = 24 minutes RT.

The ratio between RT minutes to EUO days appears to be 24:1. See my notes in the initial post

Also, that 6 hours RT is referring to "from Full Moon to Full Moon with all the phases in between", and not just one Full Moon.

Lastly, there's some kind of real time offset happening from day to day. If Full Moon hits today at 6:30am RT it won't hit at 6:30am RT the next day or the day after that. The pattern to that offset is what I'm trying to find, the reason I'd like to see if it's possible to create a calculator.

[DrRude]

Probably the reason your calculations were off was due to server lag or due to a delay caused by the server being reset. Also a DM has the ability to reset the time to whatever they want, but I really don't see why they'd do that. This unfortunately will make trying to equate a specific real time to a specific EUO time pretty much impossible. Best thing to do is log on and see what the current moon phase and time is then plan accordingly.

I'm able to log on now and gauge when the Full Moon is coming after I've been on for just under half an hour. Unless I've missed something, so far I haven't noticed anything different than the baseline "6 minutes RT between Midnight and 6am EUO"... plus all the math fits. Next time you get a chance, mark the time -- remember, that's midnight to 6am, not sunset to sunrise.

NOTE: keep in mind I'm not trying to be stubborn or discredit what anyone is saying. Science of any kind is all about trial and error so if my math is wrong, show me some other math and how it lines up against the moon phases.

[eggmceye]

Code: Select all

// 2 sec real = 1 min euo - that's a 48 minute day

hope this helps

[DrRude]

Code: Select all

// 2 sec real = 1 min euo - that's a 48 minute day

hope this helps

On one hand this helps in alotta ways:

• It looks like it came from a commented-out line of the game's source code,
• It's probably the most dependable frame of reference yet,
• It came from a dependable source -- Egg.

And on the other hand it brings up more questions:

• Does that segment of source code mention anything about a real time offset that either happens once every 24 hours (e.g. - a pre-defined factor) or over the course of a 24 hour period (e.g. - daily periods of network lag that have accumulated to the point of throwing events off by minutes or hours in real time)?
• Does the System Clock have any direct bearing on the EUO clock (i.e. - a change of server time would cause an immediate change in EUO time).
• Is it true that DMs have the ability to change the game time at will -- and does this happen often?
• Is it possible to get a peek at that segment of source code and live to tell about it?

Thanks in advance... I appreciate the input I'm getting with this.

[Bk]

I'm no expert in programming, but would it not work IF (I don't think you could do this b/c it requires the use of the similar data over the server that EUO uses, which egg has access to) the program was tied in with the server (based off a user defined port #, so one could use this to determine full moon times on ALL servers) and when the program was given the port, it could from there use the data on the server to get the current EUO time and moon phase from that server, then using the logic of RT compared to EUO time (2 RT secs = 1 EUO min) to figured exactly the RT of the next full moon (of course you'd also need something for the user to state their time zone to get their correct time, and not just EST time)...

[KingDavid]

Wouldn't it be easier just to have a page on the site that was linked to the game and would tell you the time and moon phase? of course this would probably have to be done by egg.

[DrRude]

I'm no expert in programming, but would it not work IF (I don't think you could do this b/c it requires the use of the similar data over the server that EUO uses, which egg has access to) the program was tied in with the server (based off a user defined port #, so one could use this to determine full moon times on ALL servers) and when the program was given the port, it could from there use the data on the server to get the current EUO time and moon phase from that server, then using the logic of RT compared to EUO time (2 RT secs = 1 EUO min) to figured exactly the RT of the next full moon (of course you'd also need something for the user to state their time zone to get their correct time, and not just EST time)...

I'd thought about many of these issues. Fortunately I've got a little over 25 years of programming experience off and on since 1981 -- before the original Ultima hit the market. The code itself for calculating real moon phases is based on a formula that's pretty straight forward.

1) The calculator doesn't have to be accurate to the minute but to the real time hour. This would be on par with (or better than) most simple real time moon phase formulas, some of which may be be off by as much as an entire day.

2) Even if there were multiple EUO servers on different sides of the Earth, real Time Zones are completely irrelevant. EUO works on it's own time based on the server's time, 24 hours a day -- and all players operate on that regardless of what country they live in.

3) If the Moon Phases were predicated on locale alone then that would mean some players would turn into werewolves at certain times while others wouldn't. From what I've seen, every time I wolf out, I see other Lycan players that have wolfed out, too, regardless of what side of New Sosaria I'm on. This also infers that there are no time zones for New Sosaria.

4) If there are multiple EUO servers, as long as the same moon cycle algorithm is used on all of them, different versions of a moon calculator could be posted for each one. We're talking duplicate segments of Javascript or PHP code probably less than 8k each (not including the moon graphics to illustrate the different phases).

Right now it's mostly a matter of determining what is causing the real time offset so I can figure out if there's a pattern to why the same number of Full Moons happen daily but they don't happen at about the same real time they did the day before or the day after. I get some definitive answers on that offset and I can easily tweak a real moon phase formula to calculate much faster. Think in relative terms, kinda like how 1 day on the planet Mercury lasts about 58 Earth days and it takes almost 88 Earth days for Mercury to orbit around the Sun, resulting in 1 full Day on Mercury actually lasting longer than its own Year (176 Earth Days).

It's all in the math... all in the math. Keep the questions coming.

[DrRude]

Wouldn't it be easier just to have a page on the site that was linked to the game and would tell you the time and moon phase? of course this would probably have to be done by egg.

You're right, this would be easier.

But, for starters, I'm new here and Egg doesn't know me from Adam. Plus, as far as I know, none of us have Egg on the payroll so asking him (or expecting him) to do extra coding work for our whims would be unrealistic and kinda obnoxious. Also, writing up an app to connect from the web server to some hidden game port to handshake and exchange data would require more work than just working out a formula. In real time if I want to calculate the phases of the moon using an algorithm I don't need to sync up with some major observatory's server. It's a stand-alone program and all I'd need is to enter the current time, date, and I'm good. Lastly, my intention is to contribute something useful to the EUO community.

[Bk]

I kinda got the feeling you mistook some of the stuff I was saying... Just ignore me if I'm wrong...

2) Even if there were multiple EUO servers on different sides of the Earth, real Time Zones are completely irrelevant. EUO works on it's own time based on the server's time, 24 hours a day -- and all players operate on that regardless of what country they live in.

I don't really get what you were saying here, BUT I know that there's one time for EUO for all players. I log on in America, the EUO time is the same as some over in Great Britain... I get that, which is why I'm saying you could just have a program that would USE this universally equal time AND moon phase to then figured out how much EUO time is left until the next 0:00 when it will be a full moon, THEN convert that in to how much real time that is, and then add those x hours x minutes (just to get a rough, but more accurate time) to the current time, and you will have the suspected time that the next full moon will rise.

THIS also would take care of your problem with DM power. If they change/reset the time, the variables values over the server would change (Which are the same variables I'm saying should be used for the program), so this would keep the program in contact with the server to use the server's data at all times, while if yours isn't somehow connected to the server, you would have to manually reset it to the EUO time constantly to keep it parallel with EUO time whenever a DM for some reason changes/resets the time... (Get what I'm saying?)

3) If the Moon Phases were predicated on locale alone then that would mean some players would turn into werewolves at certain times while others wouldn't. From what I've seen, every time I wolf out, I see other Lycan players that have wolfed out, too, regardless of what side of New Sosaria I'm on. This also infers that there are no time zones for New Sosaria.

I seriously am thinking you meant I was talking about Time Zones INSIDE EUO... I was simply saying that you need some option for a user to select their REAL WORLD time zone, so they would be given the times that the full moon would be expected in terms of THEIR Real World time.

I was thinking a program with these attributes:

• ~Connected to the server of EUO, so as to always have the current/correct EUO time and moon phase when the program is started.
  ~Gives user a list of optional time zones so they will be given the Moon Occurances in their own RL time, and not just EST time.
  ~Program finds the time by:
  FIRST: Record EUO time, Moon Phase and RL time at that given instace, because all three are 100% likely to change after the program has been run
  Second: You do Find EUO time left until next Full Moon phase
  Third: Convert that into RL time
  Fourth: Add Converted time to the first recorded RL time to have results

Only problems I see here are:
1) Need access to have a program linked to the server and the ability to view the needed data... I highly doubt that just anyone has access to seeing the server data OTHER than through actually playing EUO, so this would require Egg to do which then it all boils down to if he feels like doing it,
2) Need to have an effective/efficient method of calculating the number of moons left until the 0:00 of the full moon, then successfully finding the exact EUO minutes left... Such as, say you have 5 moons left (until a full moon) from the CURRENT day. From 0:00 of the current day, that comes out to be 120 euo hours which turns into 7200 euo minutes, which turns over into 14400 RL seconds. HOWEVER on that EUO day, the recorded time on the server when you opened the program was 6:30 in the morning of euo, you then know that 7200 euo minutes is 6 hours and 30 mins too long, so you can take the 390 euo mins that has already pasted for that day from the 7200 to give you that FROM the recorded time, you have 6810 EUO mins left until 0:00 of the Full Moon, which turns to be 13620 RL secs until the Full moon. NOW say that the recored RL time on execution was 1:00 PM, add the 13620 seconds and you have a Full Moon occurance at roughly 4:47 PM... Please check it for me, but in all I think it's right

It was fun doing all that by the way,

[DrRude]

I kinda got the feeling you mistook some of the stuff I was saying... Just ignore me if I'm wrong...

2) Even if there were multiple EUO servers on different sides of the Earth, real Time Zones are completely irrelevant. EUO works on it's own time based on the server's time, 24 hours a day -- and all players operate on that regardless of what country they live in.

I don't really get what you were saying here, BUT I know that there's one time for EUO for all players. I log on in America, the EUO time is the same as some over in Great Britain... I get that, which is why I'm saying you could just have a program that would USE this universally equal time AND moon phase to then figured out how much EUO time is left until the next 0:00 when it will be a full moon, THEN convert that in to how much real time that is, and then add those x hours x minutes (just to get a rough, but more accurate time) to the current time, and you will have the suspected time that the next full moon will rise.

Ahh, I see what you're saying now... but I wasn't looking at coming up with a clock countdown per se (e.g. - at 3pm GMT there will be another Full Moon etc) but more like a web page that would simply show a current Moon Phase and the number of hours or minutes until the next Full Moon. No need for time zone adjustments with that since "an hour left before Full Moon" in America is the same as it would be in the UK or in Japan.

THIS also would take care of your problem with DM power. If they change/reset the time, the variables values over the server would change (Which are the same variables I'm saying should be used for the program), so this would keep the program in contact with the server to use the server's data at all times, while if yours isn't somehow connected to the server, you would have to manually reset it to the EUO time constantly to keep it parallel with EUO time whenever a DM for some reason changes/resets the time... (Get what I'm saying?)

Now, connecting to the server *would* eliminate any concerns about DMs adjusting time for whatever reason. I still haven't gotten a straight answer as to whether or not that happens and if so, how often or even why...

3) If the Moon Phases were predicated on locale alone then that would mean some players would turn into werewolves at certain times while others wouldn't. From what I've seen, every time I wolf out, I see other Lycan players that have wolfed out, too, regardless of what side of New Sosaria I'm on. This also infers that there are no time zones for New Sosaria.

I seriously am thinking you meant I was talking about Time Zones INSIDE EUO... I was simply saying that you need some option for a user to select their REAL WORLD time zone, so they would be given the times that the full moon would be expected in terms of THEIR Real World time.

I was thinking a program with these attributes:

• ~Connected to the server of EUO, so as to always have the current/correct EUO time and moon phase when the program is started.
  ~Gives user a list of optional time zones so they will be given the Moon Occurances in their own RL time, and not just EST time.
  ~Program finds the time by:
  FIRST: Record EUO time, Moon Phase and RL time at that given instace, because all three are 100% likely to change after the program has been run
  Second: You do Find EUO time left until next Full Moon phase
  Third: Convert that into RL time
  Fourth: Add Converted time to the first recorded RL time to have results

Only problems I see here are:
1) Need access to have a program linked to the server and the ability to view the needed data... I highly doubt that just anyone has access to seeing the server data OTHER than through actually playing EUO, so this would require Egg to do which then it all boils down to if he feels like doing it,
2) Need to have an effective/efficient method of calculating the number of moons left until the 0:00 of the full moon, then successfully finding the exact EUO minutes left... Such as, say you have 5 moons left (until a full moon) from the CURRENT day. From 0:00 of the current day, that comes out to be 120 euo hours which turns into 7200 euo minutes, which turns over into 14400 RL seconds. HOWEVER on that EUO day, the recorded time on the server when you opened the program was 6:30 in the morning of euo, you then know that 7200 euo minutes is 6 hours and 30 mins too long, so you can take the 390 euo mins that has already pasted for that day from the 7200 to give you that FROM the recorded time, you have 6810 EUO mins left until 0:00 of the Full Moon, which turns to be 13620 RL secs until the Full moon. NOW say that the recored RL time on execution was 1:00 PM, add the 13620 seconds and you have a Full Moon occurance at roughly 4:47 PM... Please check it for me, but in all I think it's right

It was fun doing all that by the way,

Aside from whether or not DMs regularly adjust time, an EUO Moon Phase calculator could run as a stand alone app like most other real world Moon Phase calculators do. My biggest concern with coming up with an app to connect to the server and retrieve data is the fact that there's an authentication process already required for players to log in and that Moon data is usually piped through it. Having it splinter off could present another kettle of worms as far as Security Vulnerabilities are concerned since it would be much easier to crack encrypted time data than it would be trying to crack all the data sent between the EUO client/server.

Originally the idea was to create some stand-alone code that could be incorporated into any web page without any real hassle or security concerns. The minute you turn something like this into a client/server app designed to share only a piece of information from a larger body of data, most of the rest of your effort is going to be focused on security.

[Bk]

A simple way then could be to just have the user give the current EUO time and moon phase BUT... That could only work if it was night time on EUO, or else they wouldn't know what moon phase had just occured or will occur... But I like this, you should try to come up with other programs and let me think about the stuff and help, tis' fun to me.

[DrRude]

A simple way then could be to just have the user give the current EUO time and moon phase BUT... That could only work if it was night time on EUO, or else they wouldn't know what moon phase had just occured or will occur... But I like this, you should try to come up with other programs and let me think about the stuff and help, tis' fun to me.

That's actually a very good alternate plan... come to think of it, if we can't find out about the cause of that real time offset, this is looking like the only other workable interactive solution. As a matter of fact, this has given me another idea for a possible solution that requires *no* programming. Thanks for helping me study the logic.

[DrRude]

Attention all Lycanthrops and Werewolves...

Below is the first version of a rudimentary Moon Phase Calculator (MoonDial) that I've put together. The instructions are included and I need people to help test it out. I've been using with no problem. I plan to submit it for possible inclusion in the Wiki plus a PDF that players can download and print out. All comments welcome. Thanks in advance.

[DrRude]

Okay... first version of a MoonDial is available for review and testing. It requires the player to do a few seconds of basic math, but so good as far as accuracy is concerned.



Download here:
download/file.php?id=5408

[laz]

Nice font, what is it?

[DrRude]

Nice font, what is it?

Thanks... The typeface is called "Immortal"... by trade I'm a Graphic Designer so I can't even begin to recall where I got the font from.

[laz]

Yeah, it looks really sweet. And nice work with the calculator, looks quite clean
Thanks for the font's name.