Poll: should enchanting be returned to the way it was?

[eggmceye]

yeh maybe make keep some or all of the spell-ench weps soulbound

[Rusty76]

I definitely regret putting enchanting in EUO, tho it was fun seeing arty become a serious power broker. Now that it is in I can't get rid of it fuckit next update I'm just ganking it if I'm still in the mood.

If you do gank enchanting from EUO then i would suggest a full item wipe as well.

Also, if an item wipe were to occur, it'd be fairer if only wearables and weapons were removed. I doubt my christmas tree or zinc statue is unbalancing the game.

I actually don't have a problem with ganking enchanting if that's what you want to do but i think there are a few issues that would have to be dealt with as a result:

1. High end gear made by enchanting already ingame. It creates a severe unblalance between older players and newer players to gank enchanting and not remove these items as well.

2. Crafting weapons and armor would be mostly useless if they couldn't be enchanted. Perhaps they could be sold to a NPC merchant for gold, but from what i hear EUO had a problem with that because it caused everyone to become too rich. Not sure what the motivation to train crafting would be without enchanting.

3. Currently it is not possible to get a tinted cloth or leather items from a monster drop or a map chest. If you can only make tinted cloth or leather and you cant enchant what you make then you'll never be able to have enchanted tinted leather or cloth. This effects mages and rouges mosty since medium and heavy gear is findable tinted.

Anyway, these where a few thoughts that went through my head when i noticed Egg's comment. Of course, Egg can do whatever he wants and all this might be besides the point if EAO develops more and everyone moves over there.

[Gulnar]

I strongly agree with Rusty's point 2. That was what was going through my head when I read egg's comment. Enchanting is an important capstone for weaponsmithing/armouring/tailoring. For example, nobody is going to want a crafted regular studded tunic. They'll just wait until they get a leather armour +3 as a drop. These crafting skills won't be worth raising absent enchanting.

Also, regarding Rusty's #3, if enchanting is ganked, in addition to tinted light/unarmoured gear, it would be nice to see heavy/medium gold and copper armour drops, and heavy silver drops (I've only ever seen medium silver). These armour types might not be all that useful, but more diversity in items makes the game more interesting to me.

[Heniek]

I strongly agree with Rusty's point 2.

I cant agree with it.As for tailoring and armouring, yes, they would be useless, but weaponsmith/woodcrafting still would be very usefull.If there would be item wipe, that skill would be only way to get vampyric/blackrock/ebony weapons quickly.Even if they would be regular ones, I think that most people still would like to use regular vampyric rondels rather than untinted +3/+4 ones.

[Aristarch]

IMHO the + bonus on items should depend on how the things are crafted, for ie. on skill asociated with crafting - the more skilled weaponsmith, the weapon sharper. Enchanting effects should play a minor role, additional attack/defense shouldn't exceed +1 - that would mean 'of defense' or 'of attack' enchanted items. This way enchanting would still be useful and also each crafting skill would gain equal importance.

[eggmceye]

IMHO the + bonus on items should depend on how the things are crafted, for ie. on skill asociated with crafting - the more skilled weaponsmith, the weapon sharper. Enchanting effects should play a minor role, additional attack/defense shouldn't exceed +1 - that would mean 'of defense' or 'of attack' enchanted items. This way enchanting would still be useful and also each crafting skill would gain equal importance.

yeh this is pretty much how it should work, makes regular crafting better and makes enchanting less 'be all or end all'

[Luxorious]

About enchanting and lvl cap...

For the enchanting, it could be kept soulbound. BUT the training should be pretty easier: something like other crafting skills, having the right ingredients in in and using ench wand would bring you the option for things you could enchant. This would courage other players to get 100 ench too, hopefully atleast.

I like this idea. Keep enchanting, make all enchants soulbound, but make enchant easier to raise. Changing the mechanics so that you can mass enchant and disenchant with shift+F11 should do the trick. The main difficulty with raising enchant now is the sheer number of key strokes needed to train the skill. Very tedious, and the new drop system (dropping all of an item as the default) has added even more keystrokes to the process.

Even with shift+F11, enchanting will still be the toughest skill to raise. It takes longer to charge 10 shards then it does to mine 10 ore, and shards are expensive. I think that's fair.

Get rid of the int cap on enchant, and make IMJ a lvl 1 spell, so that rogues and fighters don't have a harder time raising enchant then mages.

Not that any of this this negates egg's point about enchanting being a mistake. The fact that were still going over tweaks to make it work only reinforces that

For those who didn't read the "what have chanced for the worse"-thread.

I like the IMJ idea. 100 int isn't that bad for fighter/rogues as you get little mr, and you can get 100 itemlore / animal taming etc. later on. IMJ could be lvl 1 spell, it would encourage players who are rogues/fighters to get 100 ench without all the hassle with crafting IMJ scrolls first etc.

OH, abt the polypile cheese egg mentioned:
like MANY months ago I managed to make 2 or 3 +8's, which I lost when I failed making XJ enchant.
If you don't want to change enchanting or you wish to remove it, you should do something about the drops. Drops are already quite nice on pd (not sure if this is active on reg?), but you should completely remove the "non-tint" drops or increase the chance of tint drops. Those who wish to use "non-tint" items can buy them / craft them.
I'd also like to see studded/darkweave/goldweave etc. drops.

[Keighn]

IMHO the + bonus on items should depend on how the things are crafted, for ie. on skill asociated with crafting - the more skilled weaponsmith, the weapon sharper. Enchanting effects should play a minor role, additional attack/defense shouldn't exceed +1 - that would mean 'of defense' or 'of attack' enchanted items. This way enchanting would still be useful and also each crafting skill would gain equal importance.

Now you're really getting somewhere. For any of you who has played the ancient game Wizard's Crown and Eternal Dagger there were weapons that were of different qualities.

Off the top of my head they were:
Fine (perhaps Balanced would be a better word)
Very Fine
Extremely Fine
Sharp
Very Sharp
Razor Sharp

Though, those games also worked on a varying type of enchants:
Flaming
Frost
Holy
Wizard
And some other crud I can't quite recall. Oh yeah, it dealth with life draining or lifeblasting...
Demon
Death
something something....

But the premise that greater armourers/tailors/woodcrafters/weaponsmiths could creater better items would be great. I think that there should be chances of creating items of inferior quality as well though.

In the end it sounds like a whole hell of a lot of work.

[Gulnar]

Whoa, whoa, and WHOAAAAA! Now just hold up there. Making enchanting not intelligence based would be just wrong. I'm sorry but if anything most if not all crafting skills should be stat based in some way. When I got back from this weekend away from home I was going to check NG and find out which stat each skill raised. Then I was going to suggest that certain crafting skills require certain stats. This would then make you decide if you want to be a pure fighter, mage, rogue, or crafter of some sort.

The main reason I was suggesting to not have enchant int based is to open it to all classes in order to encourage people to raise enchanting themselves, rather than relying on other people for their enchant needs. This should be coupled with further restrictions on enchanting (making ALL enchanted items soulbound, even +1).

I wouldn't mind seeing other crafting skills stat dependent, but stat dependent crafting skills should be evenly distributed among the stats. As far as I know, the only crafting skills that are stat dependent now are item lore and enchant (both int). There aren't any skills that depend on dex and str? Admittedly, the need to carry large quantities of raw materials creates a de facto strength stat requirement for woodcrafting and smithing. I'd like to see either 5 crafting skills for each stat, or no stat caps on crafting whatsoever. However, I don't think there are 5 skills that would logically be capped by dex.

[Eclips]

Quit complaining. You're arguments aren't very sound if we fully consider what you are saying.

1.You say enchanting shouldn't be INT based, that it should be available to all classes. What if we apply that to other aspects of the game.

STR determines a fighter's damage, defense, bash ability, HP, and load. Fighters also need to level DEX to an extent, to increase attack speed, however attack speed has a cap on it, and therefore fighter's only need to level DEX to a certain point.

Rogues and Mages, although they still pull their HP, load, and partially their defense (and partially damage for rogues) from STR, their damage however ( and mostly a rogues defense) from INT/DEX. That means on top of indefinably leveling INT/DEX for damage, they also will have to level STR indefinably if they want any sort of HP.

So Via your argument we can conclude that if we all need HP, it should be stat independent, and I think we can all agree that is crazy talk.


2. There are STR based crafting skill in the game I do believe. Not to mention the advantage of load fighters get.

3. If you aren't willing to sacrifice 13 levels to get the 100 INT required for 100 enchanting, maybe it's not for you.


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That all being said, I do believe all classes should be able to benefit from enchanting, and therefore the soul bound system needs to be altered in some way.

[Keighn]

From what info I gathered from NG here is the following:

N/A Skills:
Fishing
meditation
Tactics

INT Skills:
Sorcery
Piety
Magery
Inscription
Item Lore
Alchemy
Taming
Cartography
Enchanting

STR Skills:
Unarmed Combat
Maces
Axes
Pole Arms
Long Swords
Block
Mining & Smelting
Woodcrafting (Chopping of Trees only)
Weaponsmithing
Armourer

DEX Skills:
Foils
Shortswords
Ranged
Stealth
Locks
Traps
Tailoring
Healing
Tinkering
Woodcrafting (making of items)

I'm not sure if I missed a skill or two.

[Eclips]

Ok, this came to me from the magic carpet thread.


Egg has been talking about coding ownership for items.

Smithing can be changed so that crafted items are owned by the crafter. Either all weapons crafted can be owned, or possibly just the higher end crafted weapons (Vampy, BR), like how enchanting is bound after +5 ( I think).

When you enchant an item owned by another person, it becomes soulbound to them, not to you. Therefore, anyone wanting BR weapons of any kind will have to be able to craft their own base weapon.

This won't solve everything, but it will keep the market from being flooded.

[Keighn]

Really? I think a command like /own <item name> to make soulbound would be an interesting command. Then you wouldn't have to worry about people stealing items (not that I worry about that anyway since most people who play euo are honest, caring, and thoughtful individuals).

On a different note, I can't really understand why certain crafted items are soulbound (tile scrolls mainly). I was going to open up a furniture store to compete with Ikea, but it seems he has that monopoly well planned and kept to himself.

[ChrisCooper]

Had an idea on this subject.

How about a "Transfer NPC"?

You enchant something soulbound on character a.

You walk over to the transfer NPC and give it your account name and password.

Get on character b, talk to the transfer NPC, and enter your account name and password again to claim your items.

That's just off the top of the head, but what do you guys think? I know that it doesn't solve the entire enchanting thing, just helps out players who have an alt that actually spent a lot of time on enchanting.

Also, on a related note...

High level/old players. You don't think that enchanting should change at all. This is mostly because you already have all this nice high level stuff. If you didn't, I might be able to guarantee that half of you that said no would've answered yes. Think about the players who

a) Want to have alts, but don't have NEARLY enough money to get all of them to 100 enchanting

b) Need high leveled tinted unarmoured and light gear.

And yeah, the only reason i'm even worried about this matter is because I don't have any more of my gear from the old days. I logged onto my account a few days ago, and whatever I didn't sell before the enchanting nerf (like a tard) had just dissapeared. So yeah, I guess what i'm trying to say is...

Yeah, I vote yes to enchanting coming back, if not at least SOME KIND of an item transfer between accounts. It's bad enough that the people who achieved a high skill level in enchanting not being able to sell their wares, but not even being able to give them to alts?

[Eidolon]

I vote for enchanting completely being taken out and everyone just having to hunt for their gear like it used to be before enchanting fucked everything up. The only problem back then was the fact that all the wanna-be crafters didnt really wanna be crafters because it was completely useless since the best you could make was mundane shit. I realize this is a problem for people who want to just sit there for hours on end to make stuff, but honestly I dont see how thats any fun at all. Its more like chinese torture.

This game was great when it was a hunter's game, not a crafter's game. Thats my opinion.

[Grodst]

This game was great when it was a hunter's game, not a crafter's game. Thats my opinion.

Sure can tell he's not hanging around much anymore, he's starting to make sense to me!

I love crafting and all, but hunting is the heart and soul of it. ANTICIPATION that the next drop will be insanely better than what you have now is an incredibly powerful draw.

[Keighn]

I'm just too addicted to crafting. I'm always game for more and more crafting. I'd personally like to see woodcrafting split up into Logging (str), carpentry(dex), woodcrafting/carving(dex), mining(str), metallurgy(int), etc. But that's just me.

[Ulric]

You can still play the game as if there is no crafting. Just do not craft and do not ask a crafter to make you something.

Let the hunters hut and the crafters craft.

You should not feel inadequate if you do not have the best gear. Remember you are playing for fun not for status.

[Grodst]

Yeah, never have I asked for stuff to be removed except for hunting or whatever I'm into atm. Let others enjoy what they will, and more folks will be around to hunt with!

[Heikki]

Enchanting is great now.
I found today first +7 vampy weapon for a long time and I was really happy .
With old "enchantin rules" I could do 200 same kind weapon in a hour with my gems... Sound ridiculous?
Because of new higher drops people have huge piles of +6,+7 and +8 weapon gems and +5 and +6 def gems.
Making enchanting back as it was will ruin economy totally...
I cannot understand why all bad drops should be modifiable to super items.
Making AM,VAM and OG weapons to be not soulbond might be reasonable.
I understand that people with high enchanting skill want do money... But they should think economy too....

UGH!