Ideas Thread 2017

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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 am

Comet wrote:Here's a quick and probably bad idea I had about making defense more useful.
It's an interesting idea but I don't like it because it's not fixing what the actual problem is. The real problem is that physical damage doesn't hurt as much as magic. Magic Resistance is a high priority and it's not easy to gear for high MR and high Defense. It's simply better to go all Magic Resistance for your gear.

People gear all magic resistance because they end up fighting dragons which are fun to fight and give good drops. Shadow warriors get boring to fight after a while and heroic ones have tons of hp.

My solution is for several new monsters to be made which are about as tough as dragons but only do melee/ranged physical attacks. However they could have utility spells or other unique features that make them interesting (blink, yeti aspect, really fast attacks, etc).

I'm pretty familiar with the stats of EUO monsters. I could make a few of these type monsters and even put them in a map that is practically finished. Just not sure if this the best solution.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by eggmceye » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:26 pm

from the discord channel, my kinda inevitable opinion on def:

eg: People only complain abt def being useless is because they feel there is no valuable choice/decision to make on a build - atm the moment its just go with whatever gives best MR
az: exactly
eg: in other modern rpgs there is no choice at all. most of them don't even let u distrib stats. and everything is class based - so some armour piece either fits or doesn't
az: right
eg: ppl get upset because a stat here is not really used properly. I think it only counts in pvp right?
az: more or less. Its VERY situational, lets put it that way
eg: which is ironic because I don't really care about PvP!

so MR is for fighting mobs and def is for pvp sometimes - there you go, eh?

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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by Keighn » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:09 am

Generic mobs not programmed to have higher AS will eventually feel weak until you fight blood mobs or heroic/epic or special lua mobs.

Sort of something a map maker has to decide upon making a map. Look at old pc games where it was just AC, hp, and maybe some off screen mr. When AC was way up the general "miss" happened. Not every game had damage reduction.

New mobs are never a solution. Does def and damage reduction need to be restructured?

Do mobs have stat scores besides int?. int seems to be the main or only factor for magic damage reaching such large amounts.

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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by EmoMage » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:06 am

I'm a def whore when it comes to taming...but after i GM, def is useless to me, once again.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:23 am

Keighn wrote:Do mobs have stat scores besides int?. int seems to be the main or only factor for magic damage reaching such large amounts.
Mobs have plenty of other stats (HP, AS, Attack Damage, Int, MR, etc). High level monsters have high int, which is the main reason the magic hits so hard since the spells don't do much with low int.

Sacrificing any MR for defense probably won't happen since hitting the MR sweet spot (about 2625) for heroic dragons is hard for non-mages to hit.

Having dragons physical attacks hit harder and more often is pretty good in my opinion. Having more monsters hit harder with physical attacks and less often with magic attacks seems like a good fix. Of course people still won't have a use for their field plate defense +7, not sure if that matters.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by Comet » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:40 pm

(sorry for longish post)
Honestly for def, I think the stat doesn't mean much anymore, and that's ok. For instance, fighters get 25% damage reduction from tactics, additional damage reduction from equipping a shield, and tons of hp from a high strength build. This is before adding features like tanking stance or shield bash (which can now cause bleeding). Rogues with GM foils can hold out quite nicely against melee mobs with parry, dodge, and gouge. Monks get mirror images, throat strike, and yeti aspect. I'm seeing def relying less on a single number, and more on a character's skill set, so instead of focusing on increasing the importance of def, we should focus on increasing the threat of melee mobs.

At low levels, fighting melee mobs was actually interesting. Probably my most memorable EUO moment is still stealthing past golems in VOTs (and finding a shadow warrior for the first time was pretty terrifying). They were fast, hit hard, and the only way I could escape was by outrunning them and hiding. Anyways, I'm just going to throw out a bunch of completely random thoughts I had on melee mobs based on that:

- increase melee damage (pretty obvious)

- put them in narrower rooms, or a labyrinth with dead ends, so you can't run forever.

- mobs glow (or show some sign) when close to 100 rage, so combat with them is more intimidating. Maybe give the player one or two seconds to realize what's happening, since when I get killed by a sudden flurry, I'm usually just annoyed, because there wasn't any build up to the attack. I think this would make combat with melee mobs more dynamic.

- give more of them the capability to cast reveal. Melee monsters are too easily shut down by invis at high levels.

- earthquake ability that can 'trip' you, hamstringing or slowing you until you get up again.

- Have melee attacks be faster, at least for some mobs. Since melee attacks aren't as flashy as spells, I think melee mobs would be more interesting if they hit faster, so you'd hear lots of damage noises and have your screen fill with combat messages.

Status effects:
- hamstring chance with hits? (not charge, because I think it looks a little cheesy, but just a chance to hamstring on a hit. Shouldn't be too long though)

- charge (but shorten the range so it doesn't look ridiculous when they miss)

- slowness chance? (maybe like 1 or 2 seconds)

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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:33 am

^I do like a lot of those ideas and I do think melee mobs need to be more interesting.

But the way gear is set-up, you almost have to prioritize MR. My next suggestion is drastic but might worth considering. Being able to combine two pieces of non-artifact gear with a consumable wand. Something like Field Plate def 7 + Field Plate MR 5 = Field Plate def 7 MR 5. Now people might put a stat, vigour, or NV on their gear, but some would do def/MR. Would give people a way to customize their gear and give them good defense and MR without having to choose one. Something like this would probably have to give artifacts a buff.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by Comet » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:26 am

Crystal/Mithral armor MR+5 Def+7 would be pretty awesome. Actually I really like crystal armor, because it solves the whole def/mr mutual exclusivity problem nicely, and is thematically cool. Too bad it loses out to MR+5 in the end.

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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by Keighn » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:32 am

Sockets maybe like diablo, multi tints, more relic type armours with multiple specials. Eh, in the end when you're just grinding xp you have to wonder if you're just not a walking calculator or adding machine that hurts.

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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:38 am

DRUIDS!

Here are my ideas for the druid class. Could be light and maybe medium armor. If staves are changed to a non-class skill, it would be a good weapon to use.

Shapeshift - Transform into a monster listed below.
Skill 0 - Reset Form - turn back into regular form
Skill 10 - Lesser Serpent Form - Turn into a snake, 45% str/45% dex/10% int stat distribution, venomous attacks
Skill 20 - Lesser Fire Beast Form - Turn into a fire lizard, 5% str/5% dex/90% int stat distribution, VF can proc
Skill 30 - Lesser Gator Form - Turn into a crocodile, 90% str/5% dex/5% int stat distribution, barbed attacks
Skill 40 - Lesser Lightning Beast Form - Turn into a crackling mouse, 5% str/5% dex/90% int stat distribution, OG can proc
Skill 50 - Lesser Ice Beast Form - Turn into a frost mephit, 5% str/5% dex/90% int stat distribution, yeti aspect can proc
Skill 60 - Greater Serpent Form - Turn into a silver serpent, 45% str/45% dex/10% int stat distribution, venomous attacks and INH can proc
Skill 70 - Greater Fire Beast Form - Turn into a nightmare, 5% str/5% dex/90% int stat distribution, VF or Flame Wind can proc
Skill 80 - Greater Gator Form - Turn into a alligator, 90% str/5% dex/10% int stat distribution, barbed attacks and AEP can proc
Skill 90 - Greater Lightning Beast Form - Turn into a hydra, 5% str/5% dex/90% int stat distribution, OG or VOG can proc
Skill 100 - Greater Ice Beast Form - Turn into an ice dragon, 5% str/5% dex/90% int stat distribution, yeti aspect or Ice Wind can proc

Natural Weapons - When in one of the forms listed above, your natural weapon skill goes up. Your weapon stays equipped and you can use any special that you could normally in addition to the specials listed below. The stat distribution is from your combined stats instead of the normal ratio.
Double Attack - requires 30 rage, requires 30% natural weapons, instant burst of 2 attacks against the target
Focused Attack- requires 60 rage, requires 60% natural weapons, hits the enemy for normal damage and gives the next two attacks 50% critical chance
Critical Attack - requires 100 rage, requires 90% natural weapons, scores a critical hit against the target
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:05 am

Related to my druid post above, I think staves could use some changes.
-Make staves a non-class skill on all servers.
-Change the AS/damage ratio from str 50%/dex 50% to (str+dex+int)/2.
-Make MR Cleave increase the next magic attack or weapon spell proc by 50% in addition to reducing the magic resistance.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by Comet » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:35 am

- Have MR cleave work at 50 rage, just like fighter specials.
- Attack jewelry damage bonus should apply to spells cast without a staff equipped. Casting a spell without a staff is already hard enough as it is.

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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:53 am

Add a few "training dummies" in the arena for testing DPS. Not sure if stat gain should be enabled or disabled for something like this. Should have incredibly high health, 0 defense, 0 MR, immune to glass, resistance to bleed (like the blood queen).
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by speed » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:15 am

Change the AS/damage ratio from str 50%/dex 50% to (str+dex+int)/2
Although this allows more classes to use staves, isn't damage here just based on your level/stats? Staves in general are used by only necros and mages—what fighter would use a staff over a halberd or a broadsword? Besides, pure-mages/necros shouldn't be as adept with a staff as a character who has more str and dex.

Maybe there can be two str/dex ratios for staves: 75/25 gives more damage and 50/50 gives more attack speed. Though it might be tough to code.

Both of the MR cleave buffs sound good though!
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:28 am

speed wrote:
Change the AS/damage ratio from str 50%/dex 50% to (str+dex+int)/2
Although this allows more classes to use staves, isn't damage here just based on your level/stats? Staves in general are used by only necros and mages—what fighter would use a staff over a halberd or a broadsword? Besides, pure-mages/necros shouldn't be as adept with a staff as a character who has more str and dex.

Maybe there can be two str/dex ratios for staves: 75/25 gives more damage and 50/50 gives more attack speed. Though it might be tough to code.

Both of the MR cleave buffs sound good though!
You're right, staves are only used by necros and mages. If staves are made non-class, everyone will be as adept at using them regardless of stats. Opening up staves to other classes would let a necro attack melee and have a use for rage, priest use a staff if they wish, or if a new class such as druid needs a weapon. Mages and necros tend to have full int, since int doesn't help staff users currently, there is no reason to attack melee.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by Keighn » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:00 am

Some still like staves as nonclassed melee weapons. Id leave the spellcasting bonuses for mages though and change hexblades to bonus necromancers and blessed maces bonus priests.

Going to have to create new weapon for druids or also use hexblades (hey sickles).

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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:29 am

Keighn wrote:Going to have to create new weapon for druids or also use hexblades (hey sickles).
I'd think staves would make a good non-classed regular form weapon and the "natural weapon" skill would work as a sort of weapon skill.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by EmoMage » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:31 am

1[WoWz] wrote:If staves are made non-class]
staves is already "non-class". I just tested.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by 1[WoWz] » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:38 am

EmoMage wrote:
1[WoWz] wrote:If staves are made non-class]
staves is already "non-class". I just tested.
Hmm, you're right, they're non-class on regular at least. I'll have to check NG later to see if they're non-class there. I'll have to check bonecrafting too, think there is some discrepancies on class vs. non-class with that too.
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Re: Ideas Thread 2017

Post by EmoMage » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:53 am

staves is non-class on ALL servers, and bonecrafting is Necro only. i remember on both reg and PD that i only had about 40-50 necro, and the rest mage or some other class, and bonecrafting will only match what i had in necro skills. NG shouldn't be any different.
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ParadoxOfChoice wrote: Zombie using bow/sling probably shouldn't give disease.

the zombies are pulling the arrows out of their ass

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