Necromancers ARE LIVE!

[eggmceye]

Honestly I never understood why they absorb any of the xp.

It would of been a product of my anti-mage bender that I went on for many years ... probably something I couldn't care less about thesedays. That 10% xp from summons could definitely be increased, tho maybe not to 100 - no need to get out of control about it - but just crank it up a good way and see what happens

[eggmceye]

from updates:
* fixed (relapsed) bug : trusight no longer reveals AoEDoT helper mimic
* can't cast hail of bones on a target you can't see
* bone material: any bone weapon equipped grants +10% dmg to spells
* added 4 bone weapon recipes to bonecrafting: bone krys,athame,sickle,stiletto
* hail of bones+corpse explosion now scales to caster INT

[Mackey]

I think it would be cool if necros were a dex/int build: just means they gotta get their HP from somewhere else ... bone armour? bone offhand? something else ... what else already gives good HP buffs ... the only problem with wearables is that it takes up a slot ... so maybe necros could routinely sacrifice or consume something that gave them a hp buff

Maybe a spell in the same idea of IJO, except instead of dropping a soul shard, you have a chance to permanently gain 1 hp from killing that mob before the spell cools off? Maybe a 1% chance to gain 1 hp point, so after you kill 10,000 mobs, statistically you have a bonus 100 hp.

[Tetrahedron]

Mackey wrote:

eggmceye wrote:
I think it would be cool if necros were a dex/int build: just means they gotta get their HP from somewhere else ... bone armour? bone offhand? something else ... what else already gives good HP buffs ... the only problem with wearables is that it takes up a slot ... so maybe necros could routinely sacrifice or consume something that gave them a hp buff

Maybe a spell in the same idea of IJO, except instead of dropping a soul shard, you have a chance to permanently gain 1 hp from killing that mob before the spell cools off? Maybe a 1% chance to gain 1 hp point, so after you kill 10,000 mobs, statistically you have a bonus 100 hp.

I personally think something like that would be abusable, even if it is such a low %. A possible edit to this idea is a cap on the health you can get from the spell, or a cap to the creatures consumed, and casting the spell on yourself resets stacks so you could eat larger things, and consuming larger creatures would give a larger health bonus. For example, capping out at 10 creatures, if you eat 10 rats you get a 10 hp bonus, or 10 balrons you get a 200 hp bonus, or something of that nature. BTW this is Qwantom's bro ^_^ Hello world!

[Eclips]

I prefer having your summons or undead pets tank for you. Have the necros be extremely squishy, but have 75% of the damage you receive goto your pet instead, or something similar. Creates an incentive to maintain an undead pet, and creates a new utility for undead pets.

[Stretchy]

In reply to the HP concern, how about a high-circle spell (Sacrificial Ritual for namesake)? Sacrifice a corpse to gain an HP buff that is on a timer. Stackable with and similar to Fortitude buffs.

[Ranko]

I think it would be cool if necros were a dex/int build: just means they gotta get their HP from somewhere else ... bone armour? bone offhand? something else ... what else already gives good HP buffs ... the only problem with wearables is that it takes up a slot ... so maybe necros could routinely sacrifice or consume something that gave them a hp buff

How about a spell or ability where they could "eat" one of their summonses, and it heals them for whatever hp it had left, and if they were at max it would give them a hp max buff like Fortitude (but maybe make it tick faster or have a lower max). To balance this, you could reduce the number of summons the necro could summon by 1 while the hp buff lasts, or by just 30 seconds or so if they used it to heal; that way if you had to eat all your summons to heal in a heavy fight, you couldn't summon more immediately and just keep spamming the heal.

It'd be even more fun if, if the necro ran out of necro minions, the spell/ability would eat a pet...

(Haven't actually played necro yet, btw, so I'm coming at this from a purely theoretical angle)

[1[WoWz]]

All of these Necro improvements are really exciting. I wanted to comment on a few ideas floating around.

-Dex/Int build: Sounds great. HP can come from Greater Health Scrolls plus how about another spell (circle 4 maybe) that adds (dex + int + necro skill) to HP for 10 minutes?

-Summons XP: I think it should be bumped up to 90% for necros and 80% for non-necros. No one cheeses summons any more and if they did, it would be slow and an interesting play style that shouldn't be punished imo.

-Less summons: Having 1 powerful summon over 5 less powerful summons is good for everyone, especially in parties.

Keep up the great work Egg.

[Roopert]

All of these Necro improvements are really exciting. I wanted to comment on a few ideas floating around.

-Dex/Int build: Sounds great. HP can come from Greater Health Scrolls plus how about another spell (circle 4 maybe) that adds (dex + int + necro skill) to HP for 10 minutes?

-Summons XP: I think it should be bumped up to 90% for necros and 80% for non-necros. No one cheeses summons any more and if they did, it would be slow and an interesting play style that shouldn't be punished imo.

-Less summons: Having 1 powerful summon over 5 less powerful summons is good for everyone, especially in parties.

Keep up the great work Egg.

I think the nerf to summons was from people spam summoning daemons which summon more daemons and then there is a swarm of 10 - 15 daemons steamrolling through dungeons.

When I think necromancer though, I think of a mage that deals with death, draining life from the living to add to their own. And minions, the necromancer with the undead army is how I imagine the classic necromancer.

What about a drain life spell that can add health past the casters usual maximum?

I agree on the buff to the minion XP for necros but I don't think it should be as high for mages. Maybe 50% is fine for the mages.

Instead of a general HP buff, what about some kind of extra damage mitigation? Like a bone armour spell or some kind of craftable from bonecrafting that gives a general reduction of damage? Im not sure how that would work but its an idea I was thinking of anyways. Everyone can use GHS so a further HP boosting item seems redundant.

[LordMortiferus]

Thoughts on Soul transfer:
1) should fumble if the caster has full hp
- though I do like the idea by Roopert to gain extra hp using soul transfer
2) should not yield hp if the mob is below a certain amount of
3) scale soul transfer effect with targets max hp?
4) should only work once (if at all) on high-end bosses like blood queen etc. (same as VAMT)
5) should not stack when cast by different players

Point 4 makes it already OP atm when fighting high-end bosses. If it also stacks, it would be over kill when fighting blood queen and the likes.

[1[WoWz]]

What about a drain life spell that can add health past the casters usual maximum?

I like this idea. How about a spell that does damage and grants stacks of temp. health bonus? Like +50 health per spell cast on an enemy monster and the cap is 10 stacks. A stack is removed after 30 seconds which encourages usage of the spell and it can even deal more damage with maximum stacks.

[Djanno]

I tried soul transfer on the Kracken and almost got PD'd It works but you still get hit by the tentacles. Pretty cool.

[eggmceye]

People seem to agree to make it a dex/int build right? Also, necro should be at least as squishy as rogues. I'll study some rogue builds and post the results below.

summary of ideas:

for more health, assuming STR becomes less important

* get permanent hp bonus from a spell+kill (mackey): the main problem is that it ends up being grindy if it is a random chance to get each +1hp and that would suck. Another prob is respec: that bonus needs to disappear if you class out of necro and into something else
* perm hp bonus from something else: something intrinsic, eg % in necromancer gives hp bonus, but it's messy engine side, and hard to explain/concepualise

* temp hp bonus from somewhere:
* -- sacrifice corpse: obvious choice as it is simple to implement and on-theme
* -- eating a summon / pet for same effect? concept of destroying a summon is good: goes with the sacrifice theme, tho wouldn't eat: YUCK LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON - I think sacrifice of corpse easier/neater
* -- temporary bonus is ok but has to last long time so as not to become annoying

* and interestingly, instead of a hp bonus, higher dmg mitigation - via bone armour?
* -- good idea. but limits armour availability : tho I guess everything can be crafted and WoTed

Or combo of any of the above: I think combo of sacrifice corpse + bone armour, and see how that works.



for summons
* summons should tank
* summons should (for mage and necros) give more xp to the owner/party
* summons should not get in way (hence giblets merge into voltron)

When I think necromancer though, I think of a mage that deals with death, draining life from the living to add to their own. And minions, the necromancer with the undead army is how I imagine the classic necromancer.

me too ... tho euo gets laggy and hard to read with a busy screen, so I think the army of minions, while my original intent, is not that practical

and I'll nerf soul xfer as little as possible to stop it from being cheese

thankx everyone for posting: esp the guy with one post ! that's like the opposite of doing your first post in the ban thread

[Roopert]

People seem to agree to make it a dex/int build right? Also, necro should be at least as squishy as rogues. I'll study some rogue builds and post the results below.

summary of ideas:

for more health, assuming STR becomes less important

* get permanent hp bonus from a spell+kill (mackey): the main problem is that it ends up being grindy if it is a random chance to get each +1hp and that would suck. Another prob is respec: that bonus needs to disappear if you class out of necro and into something else
* perm hp bonus from something else: something intrinsic, eg % in necromancer gives hp bonus, but it's messy engine side, and hard to explain/concepualise

* temp hp bonus from somewhere:
* -- sacrifice corpse: obvious choice as it is simple to implement and on-theme
* -- eating a summon / pet for same effect? concept of destroying a summon is good: goes with the sacrifice theme, tho wouldn't eat: YUCK LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON - I think sacrifice of corpse easier/neater
* -- temporary bonus is ok but has to last long time so as not to become annoying

* and interestingly, instead of a hp bonus, higher dmg mitigation - via bone armour?
* -- good idea. but limits armour availability : tho I guess everything can be crafted and WoTed

Or combo of any of the above: I think combo of sacrifice corpse + bone armour, and see how that works.



for summons
* summons should tank
* summons should (for mage and necros) give more xp to the owner/party
* summons should not get in way (hence giblets merge into voltron)

When I think necromancer though, I think of a mage that deals with death, draining life from the living to add to their own. And minions, the necromancer with the undead army is how I imagine the classic necromancer.

me too ... tho euo gets laggy and hard to read with a busy screen, so I think the army of minions, while my original intent, is not that practical

and I'll nerf soul xfer as little as possible to stop it from being cheese

thankx everyone for posting: esp the guy with one post ! that's like the opposite of doing your first post in the ban thread

Yeah, it does get a little laggy with a lot of mobs on the screen. Or when Im spamming hail of bones How about a lower max number of summons but beef up the summons so that there is a better chance of summoning a lich or drag or something, but cutting the limit of summons down to 2 or something?

[Roopert]

Not sure if it supposed to be like that right now, but when I make bonecraft item Im not getting any skill up (just wanted to get a head start on any potential bonecrafting awesomeness set for the future)

Final edit - I am getting skill. just really slow

[Eclips]

Didn't realize bonecrafting was in yet. Bones are too rare to be the first ingredient. Maybe you can use Greene to draw blood samples and start with something a little more accessible?

Hail of Bones won't cast on any mob located on the high seas. The spell just says Failed.

[eggmceye]

was wondering about rarity of bones

[Roopert]

was wondering about rarity of bones

I seem to be getting bones fine. Graverobbing is in these days

[eggmceye]

and necros get more from butchering too

[eggmceye]

Final edit - I am getting skill. just really slow

it was definitely on the slow speed: it will go up faster next reboot