Necromancers ARE LIVE!

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Eclips
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Dunno if this helps or not, but going invis (Which usually negates all summons) does not help fix the bug. On Willow lvl 99 600ish int, I can only summon 1 undead before unlogging which makes converting impossible.

On a separate note, having the dark ritual spell at lvl 2 seems weird for converters. I suppose its not a big deal if you roll a necro, but converting from a mage it seems weird that I can't start using a Necro weapon right off the bat.
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Djanno
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Djanno »

Was looking for Circle 7 spell : Unless I'm mistaken, Jerusalem is the one to see to get this? I went to him and said 'spell' 'necro', nothing worked...
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eggmceye
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

not quite but in the right area .... I just checked the conversation text and it is not misleading: it says "go see jerusalem's tormentor"
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Djanno
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Djanno »

Ah yes, thanks. I just remembered the name Jerusalem and forgot the 'tormentor'

Alright, I got the 8th circle spell and GM Necromancer skill. Everything seems to be working ok.
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Eclips
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Two Bugs:

I'm not gaining any rage on Willow at all.

On occasion when using giblets you get crim time from trying to attack them.
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Actually I'm pretty sure the crim only comes from the corpse explosion/giblet combo.
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

While using a vamp stiletto death missile doesn't return health. I assume the same is true of other tints? Is that intentional?
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Sorry about the chain of posts.

Hail of bones is reporting the damage as if you are attacking with your weapon.

Hail of bones does not affect mobs over the water (sea and flying mobs) unless they are standing next to a stand-able land tile.
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eggmceye
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

nah it's good, keep going
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Kynt
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Kynt »

I'd like to add that corpse explosion gives crim time if it hits your summons too, not only giblet golems. Server also crashed once when an explosion hit a summon.
Trying to avoid using those simultaneously atm.
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eggmceye
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

Eclips wrote:While using a vamp stiletto death missile doesn't return health. I assume the same is true of other tints? Is that intentional?
yeh it is not a staff
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eggmceye
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

Eclips wrote:I'm not gaining any rage on Willow at all.

only gain rage if you can use it? ie need 25% in the weaponskill ... is this the case?

ALSO:
* found the crash and fixed (specifically, it was if your summon was killed by the exploding mob it attacked)
* and for good measure, explosions don't hurt your allies (as promised in OP)
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Yeah, Once I got enough skill for the novice specials or whatever, I started gaining rage.
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eggmceye
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

I put that in so as not to confuse newbies: as like, 'what's this stupid white bar mean - oh wait, can't even use it' :fp:
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Ok yeah, tried with a staff and that added vampy to my spells. Do necros receive all the normal casting benefits from using staves?

Hail of bones gains all the effects from vampy hexblades and staves and increases hexblade skill, but I assume thats all the same bug as before. I do like the idea of the damage being physical for HoB tho.

You can stack Hail of Bones damage, not entirely sure if you can on the same tile, but you can have two AOE effects stacked on top of each other partially, and I believe you still for each if you are in the overlap. Maybe have a cooldown as long as the effect is?

There were 2 times that I revived (without any sort of revive effect) automatically and without res sickness. I wasn't using command death at all, so I don't think its that. The first time I can't remember at all what had happened, but the second time I was standing in a HoB with the mob that killed me. I was using the vampy hexblade, so maybe I was receiving the health from the continued spell?

More general feedback:

Keep in mind for all of this, I recently converted Willow, at lvl 99 and she still has a completely mage build. I also have been using hexblades instead of staves, which could be affecting my ability to hunt/do damage. I was also hunting solo.

I haven't been using summons, because I can't remember what the rule is for summons and XP. Last I remember they were an XP sink. However, I cannot survive solo partying without them in areas that I could solo as a mage.

Probably a little annoying to hunt with, (Tho I haven't been able to hunt with other people so far) but the screen quickly gets cluttered with AOE effects and Giblets and summons. Maybe scale back the number of giblets and summons, and buff them?

Pure Magic necro seems like it needs a buff, specifically to single target attacks. Giblets is a really effective spell, but sometimes between all the on screen clutter and having to cycle targets, it can be hard to fire off some death missiles and kill a single target to trigger the effect.

Soul Transfer is cheesable if you can isolate targets, and not useful in a group. I'm too squishy to gain the health I'm losing by being vulnerable. Also the animation could be improved. Right now it looks like one of those awful leashes some people put on their kids.

I hope that bone crafting brings something new to the table, but Id like to see a replacement to SL Maybe something like a Wand of Shadows ,(Soulbound), something that might break, but isn't as resource heavy as using SL scrolls or shadow dust.
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eggmceye
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

good thing we did all that alpha server testing!
Eclips wrote: Also the animation could be improved. Right now it looks like one of those awful leashes some people put on their kids.
lmao I think that was the idea! I remember that leash
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1[WoWz]
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by 1[WoWz] »

Eclips wrote:I haven't been using summons, because I can't remember what the rule is for summons and XP. Last I remember they were an XP sink. However, I cannot survive solo partying without them in areas that I could solo as a mage.
IIRC, if a summon kills a monster, you only get like 10% of the exp. It could have been changed though. IMO it should be closer to 90%.
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LordMortiferus
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by LordMortiferus »

Necromancers are a really cool addition to the game.

I found one typo in the conversation with Jerusalem's Tormentor. When asking him for "more" he says: [..] he will till you the 8th circle [..].
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Converted Eclips (500 draconian) keeping all equipment the same on alpha to necro:

Mage Build (With 3000 int 40+80 Str 40+80 Dex and an addy Staff +8,(Glass Cannon)

- Only Acid wind and death missile seem to scale with INT. Acid wind does about 300 death missile does 440.

- Other Spells not combat worthy at this level.

-With Same build, BVOG is doing about 15-25 a hit. Healing Lighting does about 25ish with the first hit and then two more for 150

Conclusion: Magic Damage notably lower than mages, and survivability lower as well.

Split Stat Build ( 1030 str, 1030 dex, 1020 int) BR stiletto +8

-Basic Attacks 155-165
-Healing bolt 319 with weapon 50, 40, 15 magic damage
-BVOG 322 with weapon, 14, 29, 14, 17 magic damage

-Death Missile - 95-105 per hit
-Acid Wind - 85-105 per hit

Conclusion: Tankier build without any Sustainability. Not effective, and not thematically pleasing.


Monk Build 1490 str 1490 dex 100 int BR Stiletto +8
Basic Attacks 190-200
BVOG 308 with weapon, 33, 25, 16, 14 magic
Healing Bolt 382 with weapon, 6, 6, 3 magic

death missile around 11 damage

Conclusion: Still not thematically pleasing, less damage than a monk, and less utility and survivability.

Have to jet but will post overall conclusions in a bit.
Acid wind 8
Eclips
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

I'm gonna try and keep this short and sweet.

I decided to compare necros to Monks and mages, because of the potential stat build paths. Game play for necros seems to be down the middle (closer to monk), but not as good as either. Necros are doing less damage than either class, and lack the utility and survival skills of the other two classes, the only utility being command death, which is useless solo. (Acid wind has some too, but enemy MR and DEF are rarely an issue).

I like the potential, and I definitely like the difference necros can represent in actual game play strategies. I also like hunting as a necro will be a much more active game play style (IE switching between attacking and utilizing multiple spells.) I think when sorted out they will be a great addition to the game.

Things to address:

-If only two spells scale on INT, you're driving people to build more STR/DEX than seems thematically unreasonable.

-Because of summons stealing XP, and cluttering the screen, they are considered useless to all classes. Pets are much more effective and people still bitch if you bring them along in a party hunt.

- Since Giblets, corpse explosion and hail of bones are non scaling, they are too good at early levels and useless at later levels.

- Summons are the only form of survival that necros currently have, and they are useless in the middle of a battle. You can't summon quick enough to achieve mobs strong enough to survive one blow.

- Because they will be more difficult to play, and don't have the utility of mages, there should be some sort of payout (More Damage, different types of utility)

-I would make hexblades a little easier to GM since good Necro game play will keep you from attacking with them as often as other melee classes.
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