Ideas thread 2020

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Azalynn
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:12 am

eggmceye wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:34 pm
I might be in a bad mood today but I'd rather throw rogues a bone (specifically foils/bows) & let necros rot
+1 for rogues as well tho, not my specific taste but they need it too!
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by eggmceye » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:34 am

don't I do the math on necro weps every now and then and prove they are no worse than anything else?

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by eggmceye » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:35 am

Azalynn wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:19 am
Onyxt wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:26 am
eggmceye wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:20 am
start by deleting HoB, then make hexblades do more damage or whatever
Make Sickles comparable to claymores/labrys. HoB doesn't need to go.
Even if the damage scaling was the same as clays/labbys, it would be more fine than the way it is now. This would be a huge win.

Also with this, necros with a scythe cant use beserker stance, which is another big damage loss in comparison. If you could take it, that also would make the damage significantly higher. With both the scaling + beserker stance, it would be a pretty good melee class.
this seems like the tree to bark up

I'll have a look soon (not today sadly)

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:25 pm

eggmceye wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:34 am
don't I do the math on necro weps every now and then and prove they are no worse than anything else?
Sheet damage wise it is similar, slightly less than a fighter using a scythe but you lack everything a fighter has, massive hp pool, good specials, beserker stance, etc.

As Seph said, if we just made the scaling similar to clays or labbys and gave them the option to use beserk, they would be just as good as the other classes. This seems like the quickest and best fix without modifying fundamentally how the melee version of the class works.

Edit: Also this is specifically with sickles! With an anathme, you do damn near the same dps but also have the defensive option to have a shield or orb in your off hand.
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:34 pm

Maybe even just putting the tag requires a melee weapon on berserker stance instead of class restrictions. This would also bring half trolls more in line with the other races. Being forced into using one handers with no benifet like there is for using a 2h doesnt put them in a good spot either. 10% attack speed on their race doesnt make up for the damage they lose compared to 2h.

Just a thought.
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Comet » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:24 am

Azalynn wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:25 pm
As Seph said, if we just made the scaling similar to clays or labbys and gave them the option to use beserk, they would be just as good as the other classes.
I don't really play fighter much, but I'm curious - Clays and Labbys are nice since they hit way harder for the special and have stupid fast rage gain when using wallop. Since necros don't get wallop, and the special is an int based VOG effect rather than a weapon attack, rescaling the weapon wouldn't actually affect the damage, would it?

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by eggmceye » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:00 pm

I can change sickle to be 2d8/3.2 (dmg/slowness) which is same as clay, from 3d4/2.4, which is scythe, that's an easy thing.

I can let necro weapon wielders access to the 3 stances. Does that detract from fighters too much?

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:04 pm

eggmceye wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:00 pm
I can change sickle to be 2d8/3.2 (dmg/slowness) which is same as clay, from 3d4/2.4, which is scythe, that's an easy thing.

I can let necro weapon wielders access to the 3 stances. Does that detract from fighters too much?
That damage scaling sounds perfect.

I wouldnt give them tanking stance, just beserker stance (and reset obviously). I think any class that can use a two hander should have the option of using beserker. Youre still playing into the risk vs reward playstyle. You're taking the option to take 25% more damage just for specifically attack speed, not hp, rage generation, etc.
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by eggmceye » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:08 pm

maybe necro can have another stance, their own unique one? one that balances them up a bit?

berserker is 25% faster, 25% more dmg taken .... wonder what necros could have

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:12 pm

eggmceye wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:08 pm
maybe necro can have another stance, their own unique one? one that balances them up a bit?

berserker is 25% faster, 25% more dmg taken .... wonder what necros could have
Maybe 25% rage regeneration 25% more damage taken even, it doesnt necessarily go with the flavor but its something different atleast.

I was thinking about something with enchants but obviously doesnt help the whole game just the end game dream of necro.

Maybe 25% chance of double damage on melee hit and the down side being 50% more damage taken. Seems like alot more damage taken but thats huge risk reward and im a big fan of that. Choice is always good.

100% critical strike rate but 100% damage taken. Called Go for the Throat or something edgy.




The coolest thing possible would be an aoe curse/bleed that can do basically what HoB does without having to keep them in the HoB. Even if you gave it the cooldown of HoB and required you to use a sickle, thats the ultimate necromancer fantasy type flavor. This would be an option if you wanted to stay away from the fighter playstyle kinda idea and go towards another necro flavored direction. Path of Exile kinda has a dot spell that works with a two spell combo, you do your aoe curse, then you throw your single target spell and it does the damage that it would had done to a single target, to all enemies that were cursed. I love that interaction and flavor so much. It takes set up and it takes some sort of interaction and thought, Either or would be super cool.
Last edited by Azalynn on Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:54 pm

Comet wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:24 am
Azalynn wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:25 pm
As Seph said, if we just made the scaling similar to clays or labbys and gave them the option to use beserk, they would be just as good as the other classes.
I don't really play fighter much, but I'm curious - Clays and Labbys are nice since they hit way harder for the special and have stupid fast rage gain when using wallop. Since necros don't get wallop, and the special is an int based VOG effect rather than a weapon attack, rescaling the weapon wouldn't actually affect the damage, would it?
I didnt address this but wallop isnt the issue for necros. Would it be good? Sure. But you also dont want the classes to feel exactly the same as fighters. The scaling would end up being the same if the weapons were scaled similarly. Youre just changing the stat priority between fighter(9 str: 1 dex) and necro(9 int: 1 str). The biggest issue is buffing necros without making them feel like fighters.

The necro stat priorty ends up being a decent trade off if youre using bone gear with all that extra mr gained from your int dumping, the issue still lies with how much damage they are able to put out if they choose to go melee vs caster. Personally i think necros should end up doing MORE melee damage than fighters just due to not being half as defensive as fighters are by default. This perspective is also coming from a level 1k PD character. How it would shake out on the other servers i cannot speak on strictly due to me sticking to my lane which is PD. (I understand you can still cast while using melee but lets be honest, people only use necro for corpse explosion and the occasional HoB right now.)
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Assailant » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:17 pm

Azalynn wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:53 am
Even with the best gear in the game stacked on a necro their damage and survivability are both garbage.
I disagree with this full send. Dual class necro/fighter is crazy strong but it looks like your mainly on PD so I think the issue more stems from not having full dual class. Vamp hexblade that procs off your spell arsenal as you melee everything down mixed with a healing bolt special and try to tell me you have survivability issues with a straight face. Add in half troll for an offhand hexblade and its like rogue on steroids without backstab.

Between melee and spell damage both scaling from INT and also getting MR from the massive INT pool necro is far from needing help.

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by eggmceye » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:32 pm

I honestly dislike the pd remort / multiclassing system and would like to replace it with everything reg has (inc 6 stats per lvl) - except with fast level up rather than shrines. Would this fix yr problems az?

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:53 pm

Assailant wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:17 pm
Azalynn wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:53 am
Even with the best gear in the game stacked on a necro their damage and survivability are both garbage.
I disagree with this full send. Dual class necro/fighter is crazy strong but it looks like your mainly on PD so I think the issue more stems from not having full dual class. Vamp hexblade that procs off your spell arsenal as you melee everything down mixed with a healing bolt special and try to tell me you have survivability issues with a straight face. Add in half troll for an offhand hexblade and its like rogue on steroids without backstab.

Between melee and spell damage both scaling from INT and also getting MR from the massive INT pool necro is far from needing help.
Not a single person has survivability issues on PD at 700+. Not a single person should. Survivability isnt the issue. The issue is how the damage scales specifically with sickles. I do not and will not claim that i know what it is like on any other server other than PD. I know after level 500 on PD the other classes just take over massively with clear and just raw damage. (even priests)

Also im not sure how having necro/fighter would help necros do more damage and keep up with other classes. Take a 1k fighter and a 1k necro in its current state and plop them into any level appropriate situation, the fighter will end up doing every single thing better than a necro and it wont even be close.
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:56 pm

eggmceye wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:32 pm
I honestly dislike the pd remort / multiclassing system and would like to replace it with everything reg has (inc 6 stats per lvl) - except with fast level up rather than shrines. Would this fix yr problems az?
i am not against this idea as long as you give the same oppurtunites being able to multiclass through shrines. I am not sure this will do a single thing for the problems past the regular progression of reg (600+ on pd with stats)

Im not sure that would help or hurt anything to be honest. You would essentially be giving us the stats we would lose through remort +1k stats, and im not sure what would really honestly do anything. Slightly more damage but losing multiclassing? eh,

I am down to brainstorm a new system for PD to replace the remort system, its been garbage for a long time. It doesnt necessarily add anything interesting.
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by SanJorge » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:21 pm

Dodge skill for Rogue - 100% skill = 25% more dodge chance , and with high skill you can dodge more than fireballs !!!
it should raise with successful dodge (dex based) .
Fighters have tactics , so why not ?

Monk skill:

Qinggong , the ability to move swiftly and lightly , it raises if you move over wood,mountain ,swallow water, lava and deep water (in that line up to 100% skill , movement speed is still dex based).

Monk stance:

Dianxue , paralysing opponents by hitting or seizing their acupuncture points , 25% chance to paralyse the opponent.

Quanjiao kongfu , Fist-foot kung fu , 25% chance to add a kick to the attack, damage depend on footwear.

Jianfa Sword, for any sword or staff (maybe some other weapons), 15% chance to add another attack, 25% chance to counter any melee attack with standard attack.



Barrier spell for mages , absorbs incoming damage into mana damage, but uses 6 mana per min.

Fighter berserk stance should work on any 2h weapon, but you need 90% Fighter class skill.

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Tink » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:24 am

Poison bone and curse necros, using stances to achieve the different play styles.

Everyone wins. Aside from egg who has to make some new spells. :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON:

Or the easiest fix is playing a fighter with a scythe. Now you get to be a tanky scythe welder Az! :D

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:11 am

Tink wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:24 am
Poison bone and curse necros, using stances to achieve the different play styles.

Everyone wins. Aside from egg who has to make some new spells. :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON:

Or the easiest fix is playing a fighter with a scythe. Now you get to be a tanky scythe welder Az! :D
A necro stance where you have a 20% chance to cast cone of acid would be flavorful.

Even if you didnt want to touch sickles damage but made your summons permanent (until they die) while using a sickle, that would also be super cool.
Last edited by Azalynn on Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Tink » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:14 am

Hell yeh, I'm on your side sorta. I wouldn't mind exploring stances to give classes some fresh and different playstyles. Everyone wins, and if it has flavor, egg wins!

I'd love to see some different spells for each stance to take it a step further.

This ideology could help rogues as well. Ranger stance, faster arrow shots, maybe something like ensnaring shot etc.

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Re: Ideas thread 2020

Post by Azalynn » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:18 am

Tink wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:14 am
Hell yeh, I'm on your side sorta. I wouldn't mind exploring stances to give classes some fresh and different playstyles. Everyone wins, and if it has flavor, egg wins!

I'd love to see some different spells for each stance to take it a step further.

This ideology could help rogues as well. Ranger stance, faster arrow shots, maybe something like ensnaring shot etc.
Dude, exploding arrow type flavor from diablo 2, being able to hit a your target in the middle of a pack with some splash damage/burn damage, holy shit that would be cool.

It would be super cool to move HoB to rangers and name it rain of arrows. Even if it was an exact copy, flavorful and helpful.
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