Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

"eventually EUO will get to the point its (sic) unplayable" - Dudle

Moderator: EUO Moderators

User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10370
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by eggmceye » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:32 pm

has anyone made a human fighter mage or rogue mage on reg?

User avatar
Broden
Good morning, Captain.
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:20 am
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Broden » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:37 pm

Flamesoffire wrote:Rogues used to have a semi-power... And i raped life. Healing and dropping their life like a mofo cause of bleeding. But now that trolls are in, Its not much of a power anymore.
So, if I read that correctly, the addition of trolls caused you to go from "raping life" to needing help as requested in your very next post? I don't see how the addition of a race suddenly made rogues suck. Just curious if Egg, for some reason, removed trolls from the game, would your rogue instantly go back to being able to "rape life?"
"Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum?! You can tell me... I'm hip!" - Rusty Venture

User avatar
Broden
Good morning, Captain.
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:20 am
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Broden » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:50 pm

eggmceye wrote:I'm talkin about makin the sword golem kill a 10000hp shadowcrab in slightly more than 3 hits
Do what you got to do. I'm just saying there are other options. You could make it so that anything that attacks a sword golem or is attacked by one zero's out XP. This would make it a last resort type of spell for when they need it's help rather than XP. When you pray to a diety for help, you don't expect them to send you a float +1 copper dagger do you?

Look at it this way. You don't see fighters or rogues complaining about mega yellow potions or the Vas Mani (full heal) spell. Not at all because they like and use that potion/spell. So, how is it any different for fighters and rogues to fully heal a couple of thousand hitpoints every 7 seconds versus clerics hiding behind a golem that soaks up most of their XP anyway.
Last edited by Broden on Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum?! You can tell me... I'm hip!" - Rusty Venture

User avatar
Broden
Good morning, Captain.
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:20 am
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Broden » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:10 pm

Zzapp wrote: it becomes ANNOYING! hereing mages complain,complain,complain. " You took away our healing now we are powerless....-_-
Actually, since my return, all I've read is everyone complaining about mages. I guess I should have come back earlier :) I agree a mage shouldn't be able to heal but I can see why they complained.

Mages take 20% damage even if MR kicks in. (while 20% may not be a big deal for Fighters, rogues, and cleric with high Str, it is for wimpy mages)
Mages get raped in melee do to armour.
Mages debuff spells are melee range only
Mages have low hitpoints because of low STR (which the guide suggests not to have more than 75-125 for Kodiak and 50-60 for Cat)
Low Str also equal less carrying weight to carry around yellow potions.
VOG got nerfed but no +survivability was offered as compensation
"Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum?! You can tell me... I'm hip!" - Rusty Venture

User avatar
Broden
Good morning, Captain.
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:20 am
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Broden » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:18 pm

ChrisCooper wrote:Priests are shit balls ...

Fighters are good as far as I'm concerned....

Mages. Fuck you guys if you want to complain ....

Rogues. Oh jesus fuck, rogues.
Yet another perfect example of how to constructively offer suggestions to better a preferred class. :) Yes, I'm being facetious
Last edited by Broden on Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum?! You can tell me... I'm hip!" - Rusty Venture

User avatar
Broden
Good morning, Captain.
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:20 am
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Broden » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:40 pm

In the spirit of the this topic/thread I will not take up the defense of mages, but I will take up the attitude of mage naysayers and use it against them.

#1. Nerf fighters. They have too many hitpoints and can stand toe-to toe and defeat things that kill mages in two to three hits. Remove the bonus hitpoints provided by the STR statistic and make all classes have the same amount of hitpoints based soley on level. They still have their great armour and defenses to offset the damage differences. It's not like the have to mediate to let their sword recharge, LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON. Oh, and take away the "Bash" special ability, that a gip to rogues and mages. Fighters basically get a free opening ability without having to carry lockpicks or spend mana. OH..better yet, make it so that fighters have a chance to have their weapon break each time the use the bash skill.

#2. Nerf Rogues, they are sneaky, and steal things. They all belong in jail anyway. Come to think about it, what the heck are rogues doing in an Ultima inspired game anyway? Just kill off the whole class, and give the rogue skills to fighters.

#3 Nerf Priests. Where do they get off wearing full heavy armour, carrying shields and holy weapons while casting spells. Spells which are not affected by their INT statistic, I might add. Also, same thing for their "bash" skill as for warriors.


*** the point of the matter is this, people are always going to be jealous of what another class can do. But that is all it is, jealousy. I don't know why people can't try to make a class they like as good as a class they envy. Actually I do know why. They just like to gripe and complain :)
"Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum?! You can tell me... I'm hip!" - Rusty Venture

TheOneGuy
Post in swahili or SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:03 pm

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by TheOneGuy » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:46 pm

eggmceye wrote:has anyone made a human fighter mage or rogue mage on reg?
i have a 56 fighter mage but because you have to have 250 str 200 dex then 300 int and cross class for it to pay off battle mages are hard as shit to play ( although i can grind SW now so in 100 hours of grinding he will be strong ...)
Broden wrote:
Zzapp wrote: it becomes ANNOYING! hereing mages complain,complain,complain. " You took away our healing now we are powerless....-_-
Actually, since my return, all I've read is everyone complaining about mages. I guess I should have come back earlier :) I agree a mage shouldn't be able to heal but I can see why they complained.

Mages take 20% damage even if MR kicks in. (while 20% may not be a big deal for Fighters, rogues, and cleric with high Str, it is for wimpy mages)
Mages get raped in melee do to armour.
Mages debuff spells are melee range only
Mages have low hitpoints because of low STR (which the guide suggests not to have more than 75-125 for Kodiak and 50-60 for Cat)
Low Str also equal less carrying weight to carry around yellow potions.
VOG got nerfed but no +survivability was offered as compensation
i hear what you are saying but the new shrines add hp and 25 levels in hp ( around 250 hp) and 150 str is not bad for a mage to have just dont spend all you levels there. before the mage/ priest split i got a mage to level 144 so yes i do know what im talking about and i had about 50 levels on hp shrine and only had about 400 int but i still leveled faster than most mages cause i did not die ... ever!
all i want is a test server for maped then ill be happy ...

User avatar
Broden
Good morning, Captain.
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:20 am
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Broden » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:02 pm

TheOneGuy wrote:i hear what you are saying but the new shrines add hp and 25 levels in hp ( around 250 hp) and 150 str is not bad for a mage to have just dont spend all you levels there. before the mage/ priest split i got a mage to level 144 so yes i do know what im talking about and i had about 50 levels on hp shrine and only had about 400 int but i still leveled faster than most mages cause i did not die ... ever!
I agree with you, the shrines are a option. Though each training there takes away from INT which is the life blood of the mage for just avoiding having damage and spells resisted as well as having their MR increased. It's not like the STR statistic that allows fighters to hit more often, do more damage, have bonus hit points and carry and larger and larger load.

Take away the bonus hitpoints provided by Strength/fighter class and the shrines become a good and equal option for all.
"Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum?! You can tell me... I'm hip!" - Rusty Venture

TheOneGuy
Post in swahili or SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:03 pm

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by TheOneGuy » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:23 pm

i really dont think mages need anything ... but instead of debuffing fighters why not give mages an other school of magic or something like circle 9 spell that only have artifact chance to drop :) but im sorry i still dont see why mages need buffing they still level the fastest ...
all i want is a test server for maped then ill be happy ...

User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10370
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by eggmceye » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:28 pm

fighters are boring, mages level the fastest, rogues are weak but can backstab guards, priest is the supplementary second class of choice, what else

User avatar
Broden
Good morning, Captain.
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:20 am
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Broden » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:18 pm

TheOneGuy wrote:i really dont think mages need anything ... but instead of debuffing fighters why not give mages an other school of magic or something like circle 9 spell that only have artifact chance to drop :) but im sorry i still dont see why mages need buffing they still level the fastest ...
I think we misunderstood each other. I'm not asking for mages to be buffed. I'm asking for people to stop asking for them to be nerfed further and focus on making other classes better. I was trying, by example of doing the same to them, to show how silly it is to say Fighters and Rogues would be better if Mages did less damage.

If fighters are boring, nothing that happens to mages or any other class is going to change that.
"Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum?! You can tell me... I'm hip!" - Rusty Venture

User avatar
Broden
Good morning, Captain.
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:20 am
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Broden » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:26 pm

eggmceye wrote:fighters are boring, mages level the fastest, rogues are weak but can backstab guards, priest is the supplementary second class of choice, what else
My dog has a urinary tract infection and I have a five chapter anatomy and physiology test on Tuesday that I have yet to do any studying on. Wait a second, you meant just about the game didn't you?
"Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum?! You can tell me... I'm hip!" - Rusty Venture

User avatar
Flamesoffire
Posting from my ass computer.
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:05 am
Location: Right here.

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Flamesoffire » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:41 pm

Broden wrote:
Flamesoffire wrote:Rogues used to have a semi-power... And i raped life. Healing and dropping their life like a mofo cause of bleeding. But now that trolls are in, Its not much of a power anymore.
So, if I read that correctly, the addition of trolls caused you to go from "raping life" to needing help as requested in your very next post? I don't see how the addition of a race suddenly made rogues suck. Just curious if Egg, for some reason, removed trolls from the game, would your rogue instantly go back to being able to "rape life?"



You read wrong cause i was mostly pointing out that rogues lost one of the advantages they had over all classes. Dual wielding.

Now you can say "What bout backstabbing?!?"... What bout it? Yeah it helps... If you get it off pvp. pvm is alot easier to get the backstab to work but i was able to take down a bally alot faster with a level 90 fighter compaired to hiding, stealthing to the bally, And backstabbing it with a level 120 rogue.. So not much an advantage unless you a gnome. But not all rogues wanna be a gnome.
Defeating a sandwich, Only makes it tastier... - Vegeta.

Heniek
I'd laugh if I saw a centaur IRL
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:39 pm
Location: Gdansk, Poland

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Heniek » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:46 pm

eggmceye wrote:here's an old summary of classes but I dunno if it still holds:
* fighters were best at pvp
* rogues were most fun
* mages were best pvm and levelled fastest
In general this is true, but I'll throw in my two cents here.

"mages were best pvm and levelled fastest"

In general yes, however it really depends on playing style. Fighters are suitable to fight small amount of very strong enemies, while mages can tear through groups of weaker monster. If you know how and where to hunt, you can level almost as fast as mage. Example: On PD my half troll fighter started hunting blood wyverns about at level 330, due to his uber hp and awesome cleave special attack, while my mage at that level was hunting dragons(regular ones, he didn't even dare to approach blood drags). Same goes for reg, Heniek is able to kill blood wyvern, but it takes lot of healing and time, while Macros(fighter, about 160 levels lower than Hen) can kill blood wyverns way faster, but on the other hand any mage at his level would be able to tear through group of weaker monsters(like regular dragons) way faster than him. No one also mentioned here about awesome block skill, with which fighters can kill very strong melee enemies(blood warriors for example) almost without taking damage. So in general yeah, "mages were best pvm and levelled fastest" is true, but there are exceptions and it depends on play style.
eggmceye wrote:has anyone made a human fighter mage or rogue mage on reg?
I don't think so. Even if, it's a waste of additional class cap. There's no point having mage skill - VSL, KPY, KOP can be replaced with scrolls and potions, and offensive magic is useless with low int. On the other hand, with priest you gain limitless healing with almost no cost(you just need to use one +12 vigour item to not worry about mana), huge HP boost(VUM), protection, truesight and damage over time spells(which are not so awesome, but still useful sometimes). So yes, priests are best choice for a second class.

Summary: Leave things as they're now. Every class has it's strong and weak points, whole trick is to figure out which is which, and how to use your strong point, and negate weak points. Things are pretty balanced now and at same time classes are very diverse. Sure, probably they're not perfectly equal, but to make classes perfectly equal you'd have to give them exactly same abilities, but that would be pretty boring I think. People always will complain about various things, but not always it's a good reason to care about them X-D
It's always funny until someone gets hurt. Then it's just hilarious.

Heniek, Macros [reg]
Undertow, Macros, Khelavaster, Reptile, Burn [PD]

User avatar
Flamesoffire
Posting from my ass computer.
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:05 am
Location: Right here.

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Flamesoffire » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:49 pm

Broden wrote:
TheOneGuy wrote:i really dont think mages need anything ... but instead of debuffing fighters why not give mages an other school of magic or something like circle 9 spell that only have artifact chance to drop :) but im sorry i still dont see why mages need buffing they still level the fastest ...
I think we misunderstood each other. I'm not asking for mages to be buffed. I'm asking for people to stop asking for them to be nerfed further and focus on making other classes better. I was trying, by example of doing the same to them, to show how silly it is to say Fighters and Rogues would be better if Mages did less damage.

If fighters are boring, nothing that happens to mages or any other class is going to change that.

The point of this thread is to argue bout classes though =o Ideas to buff up fighters/rogues/mages/priests/potatoes goes in the idea thread you silly goose.
Defeating a sandwich, Only makes it tastier... - Vegeta.

User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10370
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by eggmceye » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:52 pm

thanx hen, my favourite poster

User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10370
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by eggmceye » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:54 pm

Flamesoffire wrote: The point of this thread is to argue bout classes though =o Ideas to buff up fighters/rogues/mages/priests/potatoes goes in the idea thread you silly goose.
well yes and no - they can go here I think for the time being
and don't pick fights with broden - and if he picks one with you then too bad :2cool:

User avatar
Flamesoffire
Posting from my ass computer.
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:05 am
Location: Right here.

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Flamesoffire » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:57 pm

Heniek wrote:
eggmceye wrote:here's an old summary of classes but I dunno if it still holds:
* fighters were best at pvp
* rogues were most fun
* mages were best pvm and levelled fastest
In general this is true, but I'll throw in my two cents here.

"mages were best pvm and levelled fastest"

In general yes, however it really depends on playing style. Fighters are suitable to fight small amount of very strong enemies, while mages can tear through groups of weaker monster. If you know how and where to hunt, you can level almost as fast as mage. Example: On PD my half troll fighter started hunting blood wyverns about at level 330, due to his uber hp and awesome cleave special attack, while my mage at that level was hunting dragons(regular ones, he didn't even dare to approach blood drags). Same goes for reg, Heniek is able to kill blood wyvern, but it takes lot of healing and time, while Macros(fighter, about 160 levels lower than Hen) can kill blood wyverns way faster, but on the other hand any mage at his level would be able to tear through group of weaker monsters(like regular dragons) way faster than him. No one also mentioned here about awesome block skill, with which fighters can kill very strong melee enemies(blood warriors for example) almost without taking damage. So in general yeah, "mages were best pvm and levelled fastest" is true, but there are exceptions and it depends on play style.
eggmceye wrote:has anyone made a human fighter mage or rogue mage on reg?
I don't think so. Even if, it's a waste of additional class cap. There's no point having mage skill - VSL, KPY, KOP can be replaced with scrolls and potions, and offensive magic is useless with low int. On the other hand, with priest you gain limitless healing with almost no cost(you just need to use one +12 vigour item to not worry about mana), huge HP boost(VUM), protection, truesight and damage over time spells(which are not so awesome, but still useful sometimes). So yes, priests are best choice for a second class.

Summary: Leave things as they're now. Every class has it's strong and weak points, whole trick is to figure out which is which, and how to use your strong point, and negate weak points. Things are pretty balanced now and at same time classes are very diverse. Sure, probably they're not perfectly equal, but to make classes perfectly equal you'd have to give them exactly same abilities, but that would be pretty boring I think. People always will complain about various things, but not always it's a good reason to care about them X-D


Exactly. We dont really need changes. I just like a good arguement and figured id say what i think. I just think sword golems are a bit much. Other then that, If you know what your doing, You can do anything any other class can do. They are equal enough. Imo Rogues are at the bottom true, But still, If you use ranged and stealth to your advantage, You can do pretty well enough to make up for whats wrong with them. And traps is a super life saver. Not fighting mobs wise, But for doing treasure hunting, And chests n all that. Plus randomly trapped floors. Thats been the death of me one to many times!
Defeating a sandwich, Only makes it tastier... - Vegeta.

User avatar
Flamesoffire
Posting from my ass computer.
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:05 am
Location: Right here.

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by Flamesoffire » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:58 pm

eggmceye wrote:
Flamesoffire wrote: The point of this thread is to argue bout classes though =o Ideas to buff up fighters/rogues/mages/priests/potatoes goes in the idea thread you silly goose.
well yes and no - they can go here I think for the time being
and don't pick fights with broden - and if he picks one with you then too bad :2cool:

LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON. If i wanted to pick a fight i wouldnt of called him a silly goose. =] But i got ya.
Defeating a sandwich, Only makes it tastier... - Vegeta.

User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10370
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Argue all you like about classes in this thread - it's a FFA

Post by eggmceye » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:09 pm

Flamesoffire wrote: We dont really need changes.
you should be careful if you say and think this. Firstly you sound like a republican or something. But seriously in life, you must be prepared for change - the only thing that is guaranteed is impermanence (and death and taxes)


- I think fighters need spicing up a little, but not necessarily made stronger
- I worry slightly rogues are a little underpowered but maybe its just R's are posting loudly atm - but I conceed that giving trolls dw took away a unique benefit to rogues - also their low MR is a problem - I think grue should post his opinion, being a well mannered rouge

Post Reply