Thievery discussion

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Lanphrost
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Thievery discussion

Post by Lanphrost » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:13 am

I know Egg will see this sooner or later so to Egg: We all know it would be virtually impossible to get you to put thievery into the game, so we're just here to discuss what it would be like. For anyone who wants to discuss it's pros cons and details this is the place to do it.

Alright, so far we have that:
1.thievery can only be used with PvP status on

2.after stealing you become 'T' status, and drop all gold on death in PK. 'T' also works like 'C' and you cannot enter towns (risking attack by guards anyhow) or deal with merchants for 30 minutes. Every time you steal it would be reset to 30, it does not pile time. People killing people with 'T' don't get 'C'

3. when stealing, your skill % determines chance of succeeding, succeeding and getting caught (a message appears on the target players screen like 'you feel something in your pocket) or failing and getting caught

4. your dexterity (and of course the target's held gold, or target's level if NPC) determines how much gold you steal on a successful attempt

5. stealthed increases your chance of success by 10% (5% pure, 5% with alert)

6. on a successful attempt a thief does not un-stealth (if an alert message is sent to certain mobs/NPCs they cast QW to reveal the Thief) and on an unsuccessful attempt they unstealth

7. Stealing from Merchs unsuccessfully will summon guards to kill the player instantly, and the gold will be lost. (not dropped, because then an alt could take it and switch back without much notice)

8. A skill to see 'held gold' would be useful to thieves, and it would display the max amount you can steal from an NPC at one time, and the gold a PC is carrying with them.

9. having 99% skill means you have a 50% chance at stealing gold. 25% of the time you will be successful, 25% of the time you'll get gold and an alert will be sent to the target, 50% of the time you will fail (an alert is sent on fail with the thief's name in it, but an alert on success only says 'someone' or something like that)

10. A max cap on how much can be stolen at one time/per day should be set to prevent instant wealth and over-zealous thievery. This can be dependent on the % in which it is trained, or dexterity (with a max cap) or as a set-in-stone amount.

Add more rules/abilities to the list, let's keep this idea rolling =^.^=
Last edited by Lanphrost on Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grue
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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by Grue » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:25 am

Ok, I have to admit, this is an interesting concept. I remember my favorite part of Ultima 2 was the start out in the original town, march in, and keep stealing and fleeing the weapons dealer until I had the phazer. Once I had that, the game was gravy from that point on ( well, kinda, it made it easier, that's for sure ). So how would this theoretically work in EUO?

1. When thieving, is it from NPC, or PC's only?
2. I'm pretty sure that if it ends up being PC's only, we're going to end up with some mighty pissed folks, when their enchants and artifacts go suddenly missing. :mrgreen:
3. Again, if PC's only, what items would be eligible to be stolen . . . equiped items, unequiped items, gold, items, etc? Nothing like stealing someones Hearthstone to earn an enemy for life.
4. If NPC's, there would need to be a slight re-work to their inventory, so that you'ld have the chance of getting something decent for your level. Let's face it, by the time you make it to 100% efficiency, do you really want to be stealing a plain-jane steel longsword or dagger . . . or armor . . .

All in all, I can see where it would make an interesting addition to the game, but I think that this would need A LOT of discussion to settle on some sort of general guidelines to shoot for.

As a rogue, I'm all for it . . . although, and this is the last thought on the matter, one of the downsides to the stealing aspect is that, if true to form, the shop owners will yell for the guards . . . I'm not sure about you, but I KNOW I can't take one. :no:
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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by ChrisCooper » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:27 pm

I think that it would be totally acceptable if pickpocketing only counted towards gold. Stealing items and equipment is where the line would have to be drawn.
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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by TheOneGuy » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:36 pm

as long as you dont steal to much like max of 2000-5000 and only from pvp players or VERY little from NPCs like 50 gold from an npc

i can see that working
all i want is a test server for maped then ill be happy ...

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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by Lanphrost » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:11 pm

Alright, in trying to keep up with every post and keep the first post updated with everyone's ideas we now have:
Stealing items from people would SUCK for people getting robbed, and make them extremely mad, plus you can't put items like that into the % theory, so stealing items is a no.

Stealing from anyone in town, if you get caught, would put you at risk against guards, which means that despite the fact NPC merchants (Player merchants cannot be robbed, obviously) would carry lots of gold, it wouldn't be quite as easy as it looks. Getting caught stealing from an NPC merch would summon a gaurd to kill the thief, and the gold would be lost.

A max cap must be set on how much you can steal at one time/per day/etc in order to keep it under control.

having 99% in stealing/pickpocketing/robbing (name is debatable, pickpocketing seems to fit best) does not mean you have 99% chance of success, only about 25% chance of pure success, 25% chance of success with an alert message, and 50% chance of complete failure to keep it a very risky and deadly skill.

A skill to see a person's held gold could be implemented to seek out potential PC targets, and see how much you can get from an NPC in one try.

If successful a thief does not unstealth (even if the alert message is sent to the target, which to monsters like Dragons would take the message as an alert to cast QW anyways) but a failed attempt (in which the thief gains no gold) reveals the thief and still leaves them open for attack.
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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by Heikki » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:27 pm

1) C and T statues should be permanet or last least 12 hour (real playing time)

2) Anybody max 5 tile away from towns should be able to summon guards with /guard command.
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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by The Oracle » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:20 pm

All this leads up to, no matter how well planned out the skill is is two things:
1) taking another player's gold, or
2) cheesy free gold (every NPC pickpocketing idea).

#1 wouldn't be so bad if people weren't such predictably bitchy faggots. But hey, that'd solve most of the worlds problems so keep dreaming.
#2 is just a bad idea. The ins and outs of the game economy is already an enigma from hell. No need to throw in a new monkeywrench.

Take it into items as well and that's just a whole new world of stupid.

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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by Grue » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:54 pm

In a way, I agree with Oracle. The gold aspect of things sounds a little limited, and regardless of how it's implemented, we're looking as some unhappy folks.

That being said, I still think that this would leave room for items of some sort . . . for instance:

1. Yes, I know, Guards are casting some UBER version of VOG, but what is that was actually a weapon that they were using, instead of a magic attack? Who wouldn't want to pick that off an unsuspecting guard, and reign havok on those monsters that you can't get a hit in on normally.

2. Merchant NPCs ( not player merchants ) would be interesting targets. Think about it, they all sit behind table ( typically ), so the idea of siddling up next to one to pick their pocket would be a little odd . . . so how about grabbing something from behind the counter, so to speak. If the entire inventory of items within EUO were up for grabs, how cool would it be to get some nice enchant from the weapon dealers in Nord . . . they may not sell it, but there's nothing saying that, like any real life merchant, that they aren't holding something back for their "special" customers.

3. Player Merchants . . . off limits. Anyone that has created a player merchant has done so for one of two different reasons. Either a) they're a high level character, and they're putting out some high level stuff for others to either trade with them for, or outright sell, or b) they're lower to mid level characters, that are trying to earn a little more gold to supplement them to buy the higher level stuff themselves. Either way, someone worked hard on doing either of those, and therefore should be left out of the running.

4. NPC - Monsters . . . this one could be the most wide open one yet. For some of them ( insert any archer variation here ), you could possibly pickpocket some gold, arrows, bullets, slings, bows, what have you. Any type of spell caster could potentially have any of the various magical items ( blank scrolls, prefilled scrolls, tomes, etc ). And since most of us have been lucky enough to get the rare Wand of Transference off of the lowliest of creatures, this could be fair game as well, in addition to anything else you can think of. Stealth up, and rob the creature bling, before backstabbing it into obscurity.

I'm not sure I agree with the whole limitation on the skill side of things . . . how many theives do you think stay theives, if their skill never actually improves to the point where they're not getting caught as often. I could see where, yeah, at lower levels, an attempt leads to either coming out of stealth, and being labeled (T), but once you start getting to higher percentages, it should get rarer. Maybe some sort of inverted scale . . . when your skill is in between 0 and 10 percent, you have a 90 to 100 percent chance of failure, but when your between 90 and 100 pecent on the skill, you have a 10 to 1 percent chance of failure. ( Never zero . . . that would be cheesed outrageously ).

Ok . . . that's enough . . . too many thoughts, but not enough folks willing to take the time to slog through them if I put them all down.
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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by Keighn » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:02 am

I'm fine with the gold idea.
Possibly gold or 1 item from an npc merchant per day.
Player merchants... probably bad idea.
NPCs around towns and dungeons... some random crap item from them (ie bread, key, lockpick, etc)
Monsters (steal what it might normally drop.. either its gold or item if it has it).

If guards catch you with whatever thieving status you have they should probably jail you immediately for say 10-30 minutes. If there is some sort of /thieftime like /crimtime... this could be really nasty. HAHAHA to the thief.

On pd if it alerts guards to attack this is deadly and probably shouldn't be attempted. I think its a nifty idea. With the new trueseeing in effect good luck catching the vets off guard.
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Re: Thievery discussion

Post by Zyrian » Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:35 pm

I think it funny to have a thievery discussion, lets throw ideas around to make stealing a fair and honest trade... a successful filch attempt should not flag crim nor should a known thief be permed crim. I vote for life stealing like vampires drain XP or soul gems sucking up dead players in ghost form and then players would have to log in on an alt and do a get my character back quest.

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