priest thread (split from ivpy)

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priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by TheOneGuy » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:43 am

i think mages should bet divided into sorcerers ans priests then the sorcerer can use pots like a fighter and have awesome attacks but not VM and the priest can have weaker one target attack but he would have VM, party buffs, give blessings ... and so on maybe a holy vog that heals 200 dmg and is cast on team mates like VMG!!!


so i think egg should buff mages and the split sorcery and piety


hmm... on second thought you would need to give the priests some thing to compensate for no killing power like a damg. shield or something
all i want is a test server for maped then ill be happy ...

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Re: Why IVPY is the new Black.

Post by Keighn » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:06 am

What about magery?
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Re: Why IVPY is the new Black.

Post by eggmceye » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:17 am

it's going one of two ways: split sorc & piety, make them mut-ex and...
1) allow both to have magery (sorc & peity become mutex subclasses of magery, the original plan)
2) priests don't get magery (piety becomes a 4th primary class)

probably the latter, priests shouldn't be summoning undead

get ready to cry mages ... not only is IVPY getting scrapped, but you'll be losing VM too :2cool: (don't worry, xmp will get beefed up to vm strength)

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Re: Why IVPY is the new Black.

Post by LaughingCoyote » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:13 am

Well... if you go with priesthood as a separate class, it would give an incentive to go human mage and dual class for priesthood.

If you do go this way egg, it would be an excellent opportunity to make this page in the manual relevant :D

http://swut.net/euo/manual/index.php/Dual_Skill_Titles

:knife: ergh... I've been raising the class cap on LC so he could become an oldschool battlemage... but now will have to choose b/w piety or magery... :cry:
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Re: Why IVPY is the new Black.

Post by Losi » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:18 am

So hows that getting implemented for classes that have those abilities already? Do they have to trimskill one or the other or what? Also, do we get to repick a race since race will be a huge factor in choosing the new classes. Human will clearly be advantageous here with more classes to pick from. Finally, there are folks over 250 who have taken advantage of the current system as it is. Will there be any changes regard that?

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Re: Why IVPY is the new Black.

Post by Keighn » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:27 am

I'm hoping priests get their own weapon set. Fighting with staff is terrible, but certainly makes a cleric a most certain healing class. Taking maces from fighter would probably suck (as some of us love solid str maces bruisers). And you could always go...

Mages:
Sorcery
Magery

Clerics:
Piety
Necromancy

What I'm curious about is how many of you will choose to be a support healer (cleric) for parties?
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Re: Why IVPY is the new Black.

Post by eggmceye » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:31 am

That is always the burning question, but it isn't something that should get in the way of development, otherwise nothing would happen

* since races are still newish, you won't get a free race change
* mages will basically have to trim piety. You could conceivably do nothing - keeping yr sorc & piety at 100, and just live with the red /myskills message - and if you had already maxxed all your skills then you got nothing to lose
* any mage who wants to become a priest would have to trim sorc in order to raise their maces
* anyone who has 200 in mage/fighter ... well I dunno - sorc/peity will still be mut-ex so maybe it doesn't matter
* I can always force it down your necks with some message forcing you to choose first time you log on post priest upgrade

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Re: Why IVPY is the new Black.

Post by LaughingCoyote » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:32 am

Well, if it gets implemented LC will probably become a paladin... he's halfway there to dual classing anyway so its a bonus for anyone else in the party.
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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by Rusty76 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:49 am

Are priests going to use intelligence as their primary stat for determining their magical strength or are they going to use wisdom like you had in EFBD? Will Priests be able to wear heavy armor and fight with weapons (maces) without any peanalty to their casting ability?

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by eggmceye » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:56 am

more burning questions X-D

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by Losi » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:28 pm

I also wanted to present this concern as well. With mut ex classes, ie less hybrid, that means less soloability. I know that was your intent egg to have a group based mmo, but with the current player base you might scare off the rest of the population. You know your player base. Its spread out, from newbies to L250+, so the chance of the 5-15 players that are online at any given time group up to do stuff is far and few between. These changes will make the starting levels much more difficult as more players are forced to choose pure classes and less hybrid classes as teh current system allows. Having most classes able to self heal, recall, cure disease/poison, etc. affects the overall difficult of the game. More difficult the more frustrating and can scare away player base which is already somewhat lower than expected for most MMOs.

My overall feeling is, that if you add a 4th class there needs to be some changes to balance out the added difficulty of the game, expecially at lower levels.

- Add more total class % (to balance changes with the added 4th class)
- Add spells/skills (grass roots abilities that make hybrid classing less nessisary (ie a way to mitigate dmg if not heal it - mana shield, last stand, evasion)
-- Spells side note: make it more common language, players shouldnt have to resort to a manual everytime they want to cast a spell, its unnessisary complication
-- Spell side note: Make increase in spells like minor harm and greater harm tiered and not seperate spells. The spell list needs to be pruned as classes advance.


I think those changes are pretty instrumental to the success of the priest change. I dont think we want to to the soloability away from players as it is. Forcing players to group will affect your player base. Give incentive to group such as xp bonus or group only dungeons but i stress one absent of the cost of the other.

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by eggmceye » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:49 pm

I'll make sure priests are solo-able and I don't think mages losing piety will make them any less solable.

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by Aristarch » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:50 pm

Well, VM is crucial for mages now. For healing I use both that and potions to be able to solo some difficult areas. There should be some good alternative for VM for sure after priests get introduced.
I think another stat(wisdom) should be out of question, since it would make new class feasible only for new characters, unless there was a way to redistribute stat points. Still, it would stand in the way of dual classing(mage/priest) characters. And what would be a distinct bonus for raising wisdom? Would you have to raise both that and int?

Anyway, I'm going to leave my mage for a while after this gets implemented, to wait till all the changes settle. I predict there will be a lot of ferment for some time.
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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by eggmceye » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:08 pm

well might as well talk about mages losing VM ... the least I will do is rework XMP .. well go on then

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by Eclips » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:08 am

XMP might be alright if it gets reworked but i can't imagine it making up for VM. If im fighting a group of monsters, I usually have to cast VM slightly less often than the 7 second cooloff time allows. Depending on what im fighting I occasionally have to use a yellow since I had casted VM so recently.

The other problem I foresee is skeletal dragons and undead lords becoming mage killers. Right now the only defense against undead is VOG which against 1 monster isn't all that great. XMP wont do any damage to them, nor will it heal mages.

I understand wanting to make Priests, but why not either give them additional holy powers. or make it so, both classes have piety, and the perk to being a priest is weilding maces. I think it would be cool if magery stayed almost the same as it is now ( Id understand if you trimmed some piety spells) and priests got maces and a more advanced Piety allowing for party healing spells and a resurrection that brings people back with more health.

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by ion » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:10 am

Personally you people all whine a lot. But why not have priests use polearms and have bloodbolt same as VOG dmg wise and int based. Good xmp and vampy staves would greatly reduce the need for VM, and if you are casting VM every 7 seconds try fighting weaker monsters, when you say stuff like using VM constantly you are just proving everyone's point...
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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by Bugbo » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:32 am

If XMP is made to heal full damage does that mean that when a monster casts it they will be fully healed? This will make the tougher monsters that have it nearly unbeatable without barbed weapons.

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by TheOneGuy » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:21 pm

HUGE TEXT WALL IF YOU DON'T LIKE TO READ THEN GET OUT
also lots of typos



well i think that mages DO NOT NEED VM!!!! and im sure your thinking "oh my god did he just say that all mages might need to use pots and healing wards like the rest the people in this game!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:"

and yes that is what i just said so get over your self and use what egg put in the game to heal your self "or find a priest"

i hope this update will come in soon because i think it will increase the team/party play of the game if mages are not both sole damage dealer and healer and the sneaky guy who gets away "SL" to rez every one

if mages get a chance to choose priest or mage than whats up with maces :? cause if they are str based older mages(the ones who switch) only leveling tool will be a maces they cant use WTF?! and if not than they have 2 prim. stats making them well kinda REALLY weak for a long time (tell they can farm SW) or hunt in a party.
what if there ratio was 50 str 50int or some thing so they can break the def of more than just a goblin and i do not think a mace should slow there cast time but what about a shield? the idea how ever of a healing mace shield user sounds like a super fighter nothing more so would the class focus more on the mace heavy armor or on spells

:NOTE that a fast casting time of a weak attack spell (holy light:if you need a quick cool pick i took 5 years of art i was thinking kinda like XC but white and not as much damg.)and using a weak maces may work out as its own class that could be really fun)

or priests going to have buffing/healing spells? if so please make some more fun ones also will they run on mana or would there be a stat wisdom/faith that give you favor to cast spells not mana(this would fix the maces stat thing talked about up top)??

just somthing to think about before you put the class in have fun :knife:

if priests run on faith (one of base stats functions like int.) / favor(like mana) i was thinking...

to gain favor ether
A) meditate
B) kill monsters(striking down gods enemies!!!)
C) vigor or another stat like it(use vigor if you do take my idea at all another item type is just extra work)

spells
mostly buffing like
C1 m
C2 an xm
C3 s/abc (a weak attacking spell)
C4 vs /add a shield spell
C5 axc /add a stat +spell
C6 vm / add some sort of shield spell to cast on other or self last for 1-3 min(+def/mr)
C7 xvm /add some sort of stat + spell based of faith/ also this may be to much but also a stronger attacking spell
C8 ac/ (add new one ranged heal spell(GXVM) don't know just priest should have a ranged heal)or a blinding spell like holy light or something i don't know

also heavy armor / maces but make maces 50 % str /50% favor
all i want is a test server for maped then ill be happy ...

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by eggmceye » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:22 pm

here is my proposed mages recompense for losing access to piety:

* pots = the 7 sec cooloff changed so that it only applies per colour - so you can have a blue and yellow right after each other
* xmp: the revised player xmp will work v undead, and basically be much stronger. the mob xmp stays unchanged, it won't get stronger

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Re: priest thread (split from ivpy)

Post by Heniek » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:43 pm

Two ideas:

- how about giving mages some basic healing spell(like Mani, or maybe a bit improved version)?

- new school of magic for priests; divination. It would contain spells like identify, uncurse, etc. and also some offensive and summoning spells. Magery/Sorcery would be mutually exclusive with Piety/Divination, so both classes(mages and priests) would have two different types of magic.
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