Map Editor Madness For Me & You

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Keighn
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Map Editor Madness For Me & You

Post by Keighn » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:02 am

Other - the following spawners raise questions.

221 - says goblin veteran - shows Skull Totem
224 - says hill giant - shows Healing Totem
228 - says goblin elite - shows Goblin Veteran
229 - says zombie - shows new Ghoul Pic
22a - says Ghoul - shows Zombie
22c - says Gnome - shows Fire Dragon
24c - says a_ - shows Skeletal Archer (i'll assume this is right)
24d - says a_ - show a u3 pincher
24e - says a_ - shows a u4 spider
260 - says a_ - shows a Wood Golem (clean wood)
261 - says a_ - shows a Wood Golem (mossy wood)
262 - says a_ - shows a Crab
263 - says a_ - shows Crystal Golem
29e - says a_ - shows a Goblin Bruiser
342 - says a_ - shows a very green half orc pic
343 - says a_ - sows a very yellow half orc pic

Can I use any of the npcs monsters as monsters (including all golems)? Which goblin bruiser is a goblin bruiser and what if I choose the one that says goblin elite?

-----EDIT-----
This is more for my reference than anything else: MAPED QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
Features & Triggers

A few questions that i have that are also unresolved about the terrain placement.

46 grass (I take it this is grass)
214 sacred ground (looks like grass but what the heck is it used for)
226 a tree (can I see through this tree or not?) (answered - woot)
115 a tree (or can I see through this tree or not?) (answered - woot)

221 Endless Darkness (from what you said Cannot see through it, is black and dark but passable via movement)
225 The Void (is black but you can see over it or through it; you can NOT pass through it or over it).
240 Darkness (is black but you see through it/over it; you can pass through it though).

Minor things:
32 dirt (its dirt looks fine)
42 dirt (tis a bit brighter with some odd markings, I guess a different version of dirt)
39 dirt (dirt with sprouts - I suppose it could have been renamed sprouts when looked at instead of saying "dirt")
176 dirt (dirt with rocks - same as the sprouty dirt. Too bad it didn't say rocky dirt instead of just dirt).

-----Edit-----
Trapdoor feature says it does a "nominal amount of damage;" I don't suppose anyone knows the range?

-----Edit Again-----
More on features; particularly ones I've never noticed before.
shr - shrine (0-7) I know its not to be used but I'll assume each number is a virtue. I just don't know which is which. The only one I could see that might be useful would be humility; at least until/if new shrine codes are added.

ctf - ctf map -- I have no idea what this is for. I'd like to understand its usage but if it isn't ingame then I'll ignore it.

rng - betting ring -- It says monsters will not attack players. Is this always the case or would it change if you attacked a monster? BTW, the betting ring in Nord needs an arena marker in it.

stp - step script -- I wouldn't mind knowing more on this scripting and how it works.

swi - switch -- again, i'd love to know if this works and how.

sec - secret door -- If I'm correct this is some sort of script that makes a section of wall or whatever to disappear. I'd like to learn this in relation to switches and step scripts.

xit - exit -- i have no idea what this is besides guessing it makes you exit the level somehow.

ITEMS:
Lots of new items in the editor. I realize that a lot of these I can use for (hooking) and putting some sort of description to so those are easy. A few raise some eyebrows though:

51a Korn Grass --- ???
51b Switch --- I don't suppose this has properties all its own without a switch feature.
51c Switch --- Same question as with 51b.
529 Healing Ward --- If I hook this item will it disappear like the ones created via enchanting. Better yet will it work on the monsters in the area. This could certainly change a few tactical decisions esp if it works in a radius and not on creature seen.
52a Fire Ward --- I could say useful in a similar situation but less useful as not many players are out there using fireballs (though the new firewands might get used more often).
036 Orb --- I'll assume this can't do anything if not equipped so it will make great decoration.

BACK TO MONSTERS:
224 says Hill giant but shows Healing Ward -- So is this a monster and does it work with life points or does it disappear after a time. Can it be placed as an evil monster.
221 say goblin veteran but shows Fire Ward (skull totem) -- basically same question as with the Healing Ward. For either I can see a tactical usage for the monsters.

A general monster question again is can any of the beasts that are neutral or good be changed to evil when encountered. I realize their stats are rather unimpressive but I can find value in using them.
Last edited by Keighn on Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Aristarch » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:25 pm

Maped surely needs some fixes to be compatible with the new version of EUO.

Regarding the trees(226 & 115) - in the lower right corner of display you can see bv and bm variables. Bv is 1 if it blocks visiblity, bm when it's blocking movement.
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Post by Keighn » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:08 am

Ah, thanks for the tree clarity. I wasn't even thinking about the initials there. Still, without being able to hook items I won't be able to be nearly as descriptive. Just that much more of challenge I guess.

----Edit----

Ah, the new maped works quite well. I am wondering how i place waterfalls though. It has never came up before but I don't see a tile in maped for this.

----EDIT----

I found the waterfalls in the items section. I don't know how I missed it before. I don't suppose anyone knows the average damage for falling in a water fall. I guess I'm going to test it.

Damage I need to test:
Lava damge ranges
Drowning Damage range (I believe you usually just die but that could be only when attempting to climb mountains).
Waterfall damage range
Deep Water Range
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Post by eggmceye » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:38 am

your monster file is out of date!

grass/sacred ground: back when I first started sacred ground was the spot you res'd in - now you mark the map with a bnd. So it is a legacy tile - I should remove it (means updating potentially a lot of maps).

stp, swi - activate lua scripts - stp you just step on and it calls the script - swi has to be 'a'ctivated.

xit is a new one - when you walk on it it sends the player to another level (like walking out of nord)

sec - if u put that on a tile, and the player searches that tile, then a door is found which can be walked on - so is used for making searchable secret doors - not used at all in euo but should work. It's a bit poorly done tho I think so I wasn't in a hurry to convert euo fully to it.

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Post by Keighn » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:23 pm

Notes I took on various terrain:
Cactus - 8-21 dmg range
Lava - 15-15 dmg range
Drowning - 9-25 dmg range
Deep Water - 15-35 dmg range
Mountain Climbing Falling - 10-20 dmg range
Waterfall - 9-23 dmg range

It seems that if a waterfall is placed on water terrain you could climb up part of the falls via (use raft - which I don't mind as i can find a use for this). Naturally the square above the falls triggers the waterfall event that takes you 1 square below the falls ("F-A-L-L-S!!!) xxx dmg from Cursed waterfall. (not sure why it says cursed).

I wanted to see what would happen if I fell from one fall to another fall. Perhaps that triggers the next fall. Somehow I doubt it. for an unclimbable fall I can place a mountain square there. I can also see the potential of a waterfall square throwing you onto different areas.

say I place a double or triple fall as follows:

F
F
F

I bet only the space above the first F would activate. Even this would probably not work.

F

F

F

As I'd start at:

x
F

F

F

And end up only at:
.
F.
x
F

F

I'd be stuck there unless I placed water beneath the other falls.

So, I guess to get the usage out of my falls I have to place:

F
.
.
F
.
.
F

Any developers here I'd like you to keep it secret about the usage of rafting on falls.
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Post by Catherine » Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:06 am

I wrote a guide for the previous version of maped - I'll try and dig it out of my old comp.

Q'tions:


New maped?
New features? - Do triggers / switches work? (e.g. the cow puzzle works, is it at a stage where I can click one tile as trigger, click another as target, then click replacement tile?)

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Post by Keighn » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:20 am

I made sure I had a copy or two of that printed and saved on my hard drive/cds. It is getting ratty now. And there are some definite things I've learned that weren't in the guide. I'd also recommend printing out the color keyboard page that shows some of the nifty keys to hit. I'm not sure if there are any other old forum entries I've missed that might have more tips or not.
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Post by Keighn » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:27 am

switch and step features are making me pull my hair out(well, i'm bald so that's moot). I suppose when they activate the lua engine that is done somewhere else than in maped. If it is done in maped I need to be shown how. Which reminds me that I should find one of the old threads mentioning scripting.

Ah, here we go:

The Scripting Thread via EFBD

I guess I need to take a look at the script notepad if it is in the euo folder.

-----EDIT-----
Catherine wrote:One thought I had: currently, teleporting or being moved onto a tile doesn't trigger features, (and thus, I'm guessing, scripts).

Will scripts trigger independently of a feature, or not? Its a minor one, but might impact play.
That bit in red I've noticed about features as well. It is too bad as I could see having a chain of events circumventing using scripting quite a nice asset to maps. (i.e. You hit a trapdoor tile to land on another trapdoor tile to land on a trap).

Another minor quirk is that damage on trapdoor tiles cannot be set.

-----EDIT AGAIN-----
One thing I'd like to know is if there is a way I can script each map to have a separate midi? I've got literally hundreds of midis and wouldn't mind being able to use more than 3. Albeit, this would only affect the game on my end, if at all possible. That would be unless the game can be set to map music=0-999 for the possibility of 1k in various midis. Probably set up at 0 misc (title screen) 1-333 (continent 1-333) 334-666 (town 1-333) 667-999 (dungeon 1-333).

Currently in my sound folder I keep various midis in there depending on my mood. Town1, town2, dungeon1, dungeon2, etc. I change these to towne, dungeon, continent depending on when I feel the need; thus my numbering system above. When selecting the music # you select 0-999; you just have to remember that 1/3 of each is set to either continent/town/or dungeon. Naturally, any number you put in that isn't there when the map is loaded would just end up silent (no music).

Despite that, I always thought a feature that was a sfx (sound effect (based in game)1-??? could trigger a sound when stepped on. Most of the sound effects in game are combat related atm so it would take quite a bit for someone to write up new wav files to fill in for this. (i.e. creaky floor, dripping ceiling, rockslide, steps, moan, etc.).
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Post by Catherine » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:59 am

eggmceye wrote:your monster file is out of date!

stp, swi - activate lua scripts - stp you just step on and it calls the

How to get a version of maped that's updated?

And when you're calling scripts, where do they go? In the .txt part of the feature or in a separate folder?

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Post by eggmceye » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:12 pm

Maped is not quite ready yet - I am still sorting out a few new features ... but maybe I should let you at it, as it is now.

Quick note on switches:
I made a new (as in just last week) feature where a switch can toggle a feature on & off w/o needing lua. Examples: the bridge & barrier in old mine, scepter/grave in pendragon. Very easy to use and reliable. Switch simply toggles the value of the feature.

We all know (well cat knows) that value on stuff like locks, barriers determines whether the feature is active. A nlck with v=1 means it is locked, when it is v=0 then it is unlocked. A pink barrier is brought down when v=0 (ala threepeo in snowy island).

I made switch toggle the val when activated. This can be used to unlock doors & bring down barriers. This works if the dx & dy of the switch are set to the x & y of the feature to toggle. Set this with c & v in maped, as you would do with lxy & teleport.

Additionally, barriers can be made to look like walls - very new feature - works ok, has 1 bug with it soon to be fixed. It's a bit sloppy but you can see it in action as the bridge that is activated with a switch in old mine.

I had some other things to say but mum rang and now I lost my train of thought.

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Post by Catherine » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:13 am

Sounds good :)

I've been re-reading the scripting thread: I feel confident I can modify your examples but not make original ones. However, mixing in elements allows quite a lot of versatility. The sea-serpent & tile maze are the most interesting to me, o'course.

For calling scripts perhaps a standardised model would be good?
Set feature X - in desc / script tab, it calls script called 'Levelnumber:scripttype:number' - with the .txt file of the scripts made in notepad.

e.g.

123Mob01 (Goblin that shoots IFH at you)
123Puzzle03 (Tile puzzle)
123Switch33
123Quest02

or even 123M01, 123P03 etc

Etc. This should make checking / debugging them a whole lot easier.

One last thing - are quests now done in the Lua parser? And are NPCs still .xml sheets? (and could you splice in a blank one for maped please? :) )

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Post by Keighn » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:10 am

I've wondered about the NPCs .xml sheets myself. Splicing in blanks for making additional words would, indeed, lead to much longer conversations and more possible options to either grant quests, give items, take items, cause a spell effect, dmg, or whichever.

There is only one other thing about maped that perhaps bothers me; I can't test what I've done to make sure I've made it flawless. There would be a lot less time for egg or whoever looks all this over if the serious developers could test their work. I know very few people have an offline version of EUO to test work (Kybare I think is the only one, maybe Voy). This would also give a chance for each us to send the file to each other if we wanted to. We could then catch each other's mistakes, note them, correct them or talk about our findings.

I suppose this would go for very serious devopers and not those that simply want to know features of the game and all the hidden puzzles, scripts, keywords, etc.. to allow their own characters a personal advantage. I know that now I'm basically playing to look at how maps were made and mold my ideas towards the general feel of the current game.

Another series of questions that pertains to maped & the game:

1. I believe the current engine allows for up to 300 maps (0-299 so says maped). Will that ever change if the maps get filled up or will there be modifying to the maps to fit in more content (a long ways away).

2. Tiles! Are we running out of tilespace? If we aren't what types of new tiles are we interested in seeing. Furniture, terrain, items, mobs (doubt it as we have a lot of mob pics not even used).

3. Items/Monsters themselves! I know many people dislike seeing the same pic for different monsters. I've never really had a problem with it being brought up in the days of old ACS (Adventure Construction Set), Wizardry, Shard of Spring, Wizards Crown, Eternal Dagger, and various others. I'm pretty partial to the idea of new terrain tiles. But I really don't know the space or limitations of EUO&Maped.

-----EDIT-----
I did some searching and found the link to this thread via the manual. This page might answer some of my questions though it is old.

Maped etc. etc. et.
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Post by Keighn » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:36 am

EUO Manual wrote:Placing Items
From EUO Manual
The only items worth placing are furniture items, such as braziers, bbqs, fountains, waterfalls etc. Everything else will get looted. Skeletons (0x12d) and the fixed corpse (0x130) can't be picked up by players either.

If you want to put in barrels, use the terrain barrel tile.

Please don't use pseudo items such as medguy, raftguy, orbs, portals, ore spawners, etc.

If you want to make display cases, make sure you put hook features under the items such that people won't steal the items on display. You don't have to put hooks under furniture items such as clocks, braziers, waterfalls, bbqs and fountains.
The bit in red talks about pseudo items that I've never seen in maped. I'm assuming tile 420 (lightsource) is a pseudotile as well. I've seen the tile in the new spirituality shrine but the tile itself doesn't register in Monsters/Spawners/Landscape/or Items. Thus, I assume it is a pseudoitem.

Another question about setting map type: I know that both the continents "New Sosaria" & "The Fair Lands of Meondir" and the "Underworld" are CONTINENT type maps. Thus this allows fishing, mining, and most importantly rafting. If I were to make a map using "Continent type" is it possible for those to work in my map or are the 3 maps I mentioned under some sort of special circumstance?

----Edit---
I noticed columns 167, 169, 111, 255 all block movement. I think it would be interesting for a similar set to block vision as well so I can set up creatures in a few more tactical positions. I suppose i can use wall in place of columns (after all the old ultima did this along with a few other games).
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Post by Catherine » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:36 pm

Setting maps as continent is a bad idea: it breaks all kinds of things.


So, no - you can't use rafts inside maps, ever. It borks most maps 100%.

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Post by Keighn » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:29 am

Hmmm; too bad as a few of the maps I planned on were going to need raft movement to get anywhere. I also wanted to emulate mining in a few. I've often wished there was also a shallow water tile that could be accessed via swimming (skill). Having played numberous games there is nothing I find more intriguing than waterways.
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Post by Catherine » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:04 am

The light sources are items btw - I used them a couple of times, you need to hook them. Give a 12 radius light, and are pretty funky.

Had some in my house on NG once ;(


Which reminds me - I've been looking over the scripting, I'm not sure how to create items as well as tile changes. e.g. pull a switch, reveal an item rather than a tile.

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Post by Keighn » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:08 am

I can't seem to find item 420 (lightsource) in the tiles section. I've only seen it on a few maps on maped (which is weird considering I shouldn't be able to see items from other maps without the itm file).

ZOWIE! I just took a look at maped and it is screwed up since the patch. Mostly yellow and wall & window tiles. I know there is an update for maped in the future so I can wait. While I'm at it I guess I'll design and post my tiles. I'll send them via pcx or bmp whichever you prefer.
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Post by eggmceye » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:22 pm

ok very important update!!!

DO NOT USE HOOKS



any items that you place by default, except fountains and switches, are flagged as 'furniture' - which is a new feature in 1.2 - furniture items get saved to the map file and not the itm file - and cannot be picked up by anyone, even DM.

you can toggle furniture status of items with middle mouse button - you won't need to use this though.

Hooks are obsolete - except for housing, and signs made from items




lightsource item: feel free to use - sparingly - very very bright, and ALWAYS put on a wall so stuff doesnt drop on it (thus putting the light out)

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Post by eggmceye » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:28 pm

Keighn wrote:I can't seem to find item 420 (lightsource) in the tiles section. I've only seen it on a few maps on maped (which is weird considering I shouldn't be able to see items from other maps without the itm file).

ZOWIE! I just took a look at maped and it is screwed up since the patch. Mostly yellow and wall & window tiles. I know there is an update for maped in the future so I can wait. While I'm at it I guess I'll design and post my tiles. I'll send them via pcx or bmp whichever you prefer.
copy all the dat files, if not just mtiles to yr maped dir, and the btiles* too

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Post by Keighn » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:15 pm

eggmceye wrote:ok very important update!!!

DO NOT USE HOOKS



any items that you place by default, except fountains and switches, are flagged as 'furniture' - which is a new feature in 1.2 - furniture items get saved to the map file and not the itm file - and cannot be picked up by anyone, even DM.

you can toggle furniture status of items with middle mouse button - you won't need to use this though.

Hooks are obsolete - except for housing, and signs made from items




lightsource item: feel free to use - sparingly - very very bright, and ALWAYS put on a wall so stuff doesnt drop on it (thus putting the light out)
hmmm.... so some usage is ok. Good thing as sometimes I like to get descriptive.
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