Ideas thread 2022

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Tink
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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by Tink » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:25 pm

I think Goe means needing stealth to make use of your SL + backstab idea.

I don’t think that’s a horrible caveat fwiw.

Or a backstab cool down of let’s say 3-5 seconds? Then everyone could have what they want.

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Keighn
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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by Keighn » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:15 am

Stealth is more than being just invisible, it is being able to move silently, to mask odors based on air currents, etc. An invisible thing can still be a stanky clutz making all sorts of horrible hidden mistakes. What is this "turbo" stealth thing?

Hide, attack, run so many steps, hide, attack rinse & repeat? Wth is wrong with that? Maybe we should slow down regular attack speeds since fighters swing too fast as well. Fuck nerf everyone and pump up the mobs to heroic difficulty as base but 1/2 their xp. Spells cast too fast, we need more cooldown (for players), speed mob casting and attacks up.

Good players will know how to play well. A newb isn't going to know how far away to stealth then attack and try again. It takes some gaming memory muscle. You can cast invisibility surrounded by mobs, you CAN NOT stealth (attempt to H ide) surrounded by mobs.

I see the idea of a 100% rogue using invisibility in lieu of hiding but it looks more like an exploit to hide and backstab surrounded by mobs. That looks far more like a turbo stealth than what actually using stealth as is.

Mage/Rogue: You can use invisibilty to get mobs off your back if they don't have reveal or don't cast it. You can then get far enough away and hit H to steath and attempt a BS, cast invis again rinse and repeat. It is slower but still works. Should you be able to H while invisible next to a mob? Eh... I don't know, it sounds like a cheese.
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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by CinisterD » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:13 am

You bring up a GREAT point about being able to invis while you're surrounded.

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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by Comet » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:08 am

My Rogue Mage senses are tingling :D

This is largely a personal opinion but I don't think rogues need to have backstab with invis. Largely because there so many ways it can be cheesed - I forsee rogues stockpiling invis scrolls and just unloading on bosses and 2x2s. And if there's a tank in the party there's little reason to do anything else. I play a rogue mage and backstab + invis is already fun and powerful (invis right after backstabbing and they don't chase or hit you, plus you can run faster to your hiding spot).

I'm not sure about the cooldown either, since lots of the fun of backstab is finding a door or cover and getting quick backstabs in. A cooldown removes that tactical aspect, not to mention lots of experienced rogues can get in an occasional backstab in under 3 seconds with traditional hit and run tactics, so a cooldown would throw off the rhythm.

Imagine standing next to someone, they go invisible and immediately try to stab you. Unexpected? Hardly. And then after stabbing you they go invisible again and try to stab you from the same spot. It's definitely an effective and tricky fighting style, but not the same as ambushing someone unaware.

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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by Keighn » Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:28 am

I imagine if there was a Ranger/Scout class that specialized in ranged then he'd have Snipe instead of backstab (basically ranged backstab). Point blank head shot makes me think of some action movie or horror movie when you pull out Big Ben (your shitgun) and unload both barrels into the target's skull. Its either in surprise or luck. I've never thought of that attack as a snipe headshot though.
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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by Tink » Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:31 am

@Comet
Agree with what you mentioned.

What about backstabs from Invis having a small CD. But backstabs from stealth having no CD?

That way you could regular BS then invis BS for insane damage then 10 sec to I vis BS again so then you go hide and rinse and repeat or something?

I’m all for having more shit to multi class with. More synergies is more fun IMO.

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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by Comet » Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:26 am

Tink wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:31 am
@Comet
Agree with what you mentioned.

What about backstabs from Invis having a small CD. But backstabs from stealth having no CD?
Yeah I was thinking of that too. No idea how to code that LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON. I know another idea suggested in the past was to allow invis backstab but nerf the damage - prob wouldn't be popular but would work.
Tink wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:48 am
Mage invis + backstab would need some kind of cooldown imo. I feel like it would be cheesy if you could just spam VSL and backstab over and over.
I agree, though after testing VSL backstab seemed fine. The cooldown is pretty long so it's reasonably slow. Maybe we should just allow invis backstab for alpha and go wild X-D. Even SL might not be too bad, though SL scrolls are always the threat. Of course the problem is this allows for very stationary rather than hit and run combat - just imagine standing and fighting with dual SS and occasionally pressing VSL for free backstab.

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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by eggmceye » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:02 am

I think the point about going invis while surrounded and being able to backstab totally kills the idea off for me, sorry cind :knife:

given that there isn't much point adding a cd to bs, or changing how it works otherwise, so you can all have a lie down now

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CinisterD
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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by CinisterD » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:53 am

I honestly hadn't thought of that angle, and agree. It would actually be an improved backstab more than anything else. No worries!

Bleeding eardrums though...

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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by Bugbo » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:40 am

Hit and run tactics are pretty much how I play on PD. Only instead of backstab I hide, sneak close enough to lob a chain lightning or other spell, then run away and hide again. It has served me well so far.

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Re: Ideas thread 2022

Post by Keighn » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:06 pm

Hoe of destruction is awesome. A sniper with BOW OF DESTRUCTION would make RAMBO cry in joy.
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