MAPED QUESTIONS & ANSWERS

[Keighn]

Since I'm having a hell of a time finding a whole lot of information on maped (besides what's in the manual), I'll ask these annoying little questions here.

The first has to do with lock (lok) & nolock features (nlk):
Each has a certain value:
Val: 0
Item: 0
dx: 0
dy: 0
Description: (self explanatory)

Accordingly, if you set the item:0 then a lock can never be unlocked.
If you don't want a nolock to auto-relock you set dest-x to 1 (player housing issues).

Ok, what about a regular door that doesn't lock? What about a regular door that locks? How do I set up clanhall locks (main door)? Is there a difficulty as to how hard locks are to pick - can this be set? How long do locks relock? What about these other values? I'm assuming these have something to do all this and could probably help me out (I just need to know how to set the values). Also, what the hell is the difference between lock and nolock anyways?

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Darkness, Endless Darkness, and The Void Tiles; what's the bloody difference? I can sepulate that The void is an obstacle that can't be crossed except by teleport; what about the other 2?

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Messages for Features; which will go for dark, teleporter, sanctuary, jail, hook, and maybe a few others. Is the message displayed by walking upon the item or looking at it? Or is it based by setting a value to something different? i.e. Does a hooked item only describe itself when looked upon or can it somehow be set to when I walk on it? For that matter can hooked items be walked on? (I really should know this, but I don't so feel my ignorance).

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Signs; do they all have some sore of prewriting that goes like this: "It says" --- blankety blank blank Whatever the sign says.....??? Can this be set different if so?

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I don't suppose there anything important that the values do in anything I didn't mention for other features?

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How many features can be on a single map without slowing the server terribly?

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And finally, my version of MAPED still isn't allowing me to copy/paste my features. I still get a blasted blank feature when pasted after I copy the damn thing. This is just going to make it take that much longer for anything I submit. Oh well. You haven't updated MAPED lately by chance have you?

Keighn

[BlackMage]

err... ok I used to do maped lots... but some of the questions you ask like wtf... WTF

so here it goes...

Accordingly, if you set the item:0 then a lock can never be unlocked.
If you don't want a nolock to auto-relock you set dest-x to 1 (player housing issues).

Ok, what about a regular door that doesn't lock? What about a regular door that locks? How do I set up clanhall locks (main door)? Is there a difficulty as to how hard locks are to pick - can this be set? How long do locks relock? What about these other values? I'm assuming these have something to do all this and could probably help me out (I just need to know how to set the values). Also, what the hell is the difference between lock and nolock anyways?

I know a regular door that DOESN'T lock gets nothing put on it... other than that I have no idea about the rest of it...

Darkness, Endless Darkness, and The Void Tiles; what's the bloody difference? I can sepulate that The void is an obstacle that can't be crossed except by teleport; what about the other 2?

I think you're right about the Void.. the darkness is like the tiles in the rogue area of cassandra's tower... you see your square and that's that... nothing but black all around... if you don't know what I'm talking about go check out cassandra's tower and go to the rogue area...

Messages for Features; which will go for dark, teleporter, sanctuary, jail, hook, and maybe a few others. Is the message displayed by walking upon the item or looking at it? Or is it based by setting a value to something different? i.e. Does a hooked item only describe itself when looked upon or can it somehow be set to when I walk on it? For that matter can hooked items be walked on? (I really should know this, but I don't so feel my ignorance).

A hooked item is something that is set that can't be moved nor picked up... I think it's "msg" is activated when you walk over the tile that it's set to... not when you look at it...

the sign (sgn I think) is activated when you look at something... like... a sign... haha... personally... I used the sign feature with the hooked items I have in the clanhall I made for MMNS... wanna check it out just ask and I'll show it to you

Signs; do they all have some sore of prewriting that goes like this: "It says" --- blankety blank blank Whatever the sign says.....??? Can this be set different if so?

I believe it's just blank so when you look at it without a message it'll say "You see a sign." Once a message is put on it then it will display the message...

I don't suppose there anything important that the values do in anything I didn't mention for other features?

I have no clue what you are talking about... =\

How many features can be on a single map without slowing the server terribly?

No idea either

And finally, my version of MAPED still isn't allowing me to copy/paste my features. I still get a blasted blank feature when pasted after I copy the damn thing. This is just going to make it take that much longer for anything I submit. Oh well. You haven't updated MAPED lately by chance have you?

I didn't even know there was a copy/paste feature in MapEd ...

I think maped did get a patch recently but I could be wrong... check the downloads and http://swut.net/euo/manual/index.php/Main_Page#Maped <that link... that should tell you everything you need to know...

Enjoy

[Keighn]

Thanks for answering what you could BlackMage. I'll be sure to take up that offer to tour your guild next time I'm on. Currently I've only seen the inside of one other hall and that is MOO (McDeath being a member and all).

Keighn

[Nick]

You should have directed him to me if he wanted to see the MMNS hall.

But a "sgn" value can be set to "1" to also hook an item to it.

Or was it "hoo" being set to "1"? Eh.


To clarify what BM said..
Darkness can be seen across and walked across.
Endless Darkness obstructs view but can be walked across.
The void obstructs view and cannot be walked on.

I never play with locks. Someone told me Egg puts in the Guild locks himself, so don't worry about them.

[eggmceye]

Ok, what about a regular door that doesn't lock?

don't put a lock on it

What about a regular door that locks?

put a lck on it, don't set any variables. value will be set to 1 automatically.

How do I set up clanhall locks (main door)?

put a nlk on it, that's all - i'll fix the rest

Is there a difficulty as to how hard locks are to pick - can this be set? How long do locks relock? What about these other values? I'm assuming these have something to do all this and could probably help me out (I just need to know how to set the values).

no lock difficulties, locks relock automatically 5-10 mins, don't worry about the other values - the itm is the key but leave as 0 if there is no key. I've updated the manual to make it a little clearer.

Also, what the hell is the difference between lock and nolock anyways?

lck is pickable, nlk (no pick lock) means it can't be picked

Darkness, Endless Darkness, and The Void Tiles; what's the bloody difference? I can sepulate that The void is an obstacle that can't be crossed except by teleport; what about the other 2?

endless darkness is a black, walk through tile that blocks light, like walking through forest. Darkness does not block light: darkness is like void but you can step on it.

[eggmceye]

Messages for Features; which will go for dark, teleporter, sanctuary, jail, hook, and maybe a few others. Is the message displayed by walking upon the item or looking at it? Or is it based by setting a value to something different? i.e. Does a hooked item only describe itself when looked upon or can it somehow be set to when I walk on it? For that matter can hooked items be walked on? (I really should know this, but I don't so feel my ignorance).

messages are generally displayed when stepped on.

hooks: these stop items being picked up. the message is displayed when looked at, and if the val is set to 1 - use this for readable items that can't be picked up - eg books, scrolls, brass plates on walls.

Signs; do they all have some sore of prewriting that goes like this: "It says" --- blankety blank blank Whatever the sign says.....??? Can this be set different if so?

there is no default writing, set the message to what the sign says

I don't suppose there anything important that the values do in anything I didn't mention for other features?

altho the manual page is pretty dry, it is clear and up to date
http://swut.net/euo/manual/index.php/Fe ... d_Triggers

if a variable is not mentioned in the section for the feature, leave it default

How many features can be on a single map without slowing the server terribly?

features don't really affect server speed but there is no need to just over use them because you can

And finally, my version of MAPED still isn't allowing me to copy/paste my features. I still get a blasted blank feature when pasted after I copy the damn thing. This is just going to make it take that much longer for anything I submit. Oh well. You haven't updated MAPED lately by chance have you?

The uploaded maped is very recent, so redownload it - however cut/paste has worked for 12-18 months I think at least.

1) make sure you are in feature mode
2) ctrl-left click on a feature to copy it
3) shift-left click on a blank square to paste

[GenoStar]

Question, does a jail tile keep you from teleporting through it or does it only stop magic for the tile that you're standing on?

[Keighn]

I was just checking my map and noticed I have used hook on certain terrain tiles (mostly ones that are obstacles). Is this an acceptable way to use description of items (by setting value =1) or should I use a different feature. I just realized I should probably change any non-obstable with a message feature or something else (sign I suppose).

Also, if I put a value =1 on traps did I err? I suppose the value and item should both = 0.

Keighn

[blueblaze]

I'm having trouble finding the maped program in my euo folder. Is there some subfolder that it is in? Can someone help me please?

[eggmceye]

it's a separate download

http://swut.net/euo/download.htm

[Keighn]

Well, after doing quite a bit of testing on the M.I.B. Headquarters I have found some interesting facts not fully covered by either maped manual. Egg did tell me that there were things that may/would not work but I had to see for myself.

1. Anvils - while it is nice to put a hook on it to give it a description I will note that you won't be able to put weapons/armour on the anvil to repair them. I amended this in my guild just recently and made a few msg spaces instead just before the anvils.

2. Doors with lck or nlck functions - While these have an area for text to be put in I wouldn't bother at this time. The text was never displayed in my guild hall so I yet again had to use message spaces in front.

3. Container Spots - Any place in which you put a hook to have a descriptive container space, like I did, is fruitless. All you'll get after you place the container on that hook spot is "You see a mimic." So once again a few more message spots in front of containers.

4. Very odd, I have some trapdoor features which work pretty good, except that they do no damage upon teleportation. I don't see what I did wrong there maybe someone can open up that can of worms for me.

5. I'm pleased to say that KPY scrolls don't work in no blink maps. I've seen people disappear so I assume KOP does work to leave the map. I shall try this next time I'm on.

Other than that everything seems to work quite fine. I've finally gotten the hand of the copy/paste feature. Too bad I did most of the writing first before finally getting the hang of this maped feature.

Keighn

[Morsetlis]

I believe that KPY doesn't work in "dungeon" type maps, not necessarily No-Blink ones.

[GenoStar]

Use a sign feature on the anvils.

[Keighn]

I was messing around with maped the other day just for kicks when i noticed something peculiar.

You can make a map 250 x 100 but you can't make a map 100 x 250. Actaully, I'm not entirely sure you can make a map 100 x 101 even though you could make a 101 x 100 map.

And of course it is entirely impossible to make a 250 x 250 map. Why such big maps? I was thinking continents mainly or vast land maps. That and i was going to try may hand at developing previous ultima maps but at a 4:1 ratio to increase the size. I would then do some specific editing to make the maps a tad more interesting.

Anyone know of a tile-based map program that can do something similar?

[eggmceye]

250x100 is the max map size - the only map that big is the continent. There is a soft rule that dungeon maps have to be max 100x100. I think u4 britania was 256x256 and in u5 it was 512x512 ...

[Keighn]

A quick look at maped shows 210x100 for continent map.

Here's some info I found about Ultima 4 & 5:

<[Lord British]> Well, to tell about Ultima 5 in great detail I am going to
wait till all questions are through, but briefly, so far, it takes up 6
sides of disks...it has 512 tiles to draw the maps with (as opposed to
256 in U4)...it has twice the size outdoor map, and twice as many
towns...twice as much data per NPC, and the list goes on and on and
on... As for the plot, it will be a sequel to Ultima 4 but more like
The Empire Strikes Back. The bad guys may win this one... (evil nasty
grin)

<[Lord British]> ...I have doubled the number of shapes (tiles-grass, water
etc) that I have to make the surface of the world with to 512. This
gives me a lot more terrain types, and a lot more detail, like I have
coastline tiles so that the coast does not look blocky...I have curves
and diagonals, rivers and roads, juctions for both, waterfalls and
things...There are left edge of hills trailing off into grass, and right
and so on so that the map hardly looks like tile graphics any more.
Looks more like a hand drawn picture.

In the towns there are tables, chairs, lamps, bookshelves, anvils,
torture devices...the list goes on and on and on...so just walking
around in the world is a whole new experience. There is now real time
of day and night, and at night it gets dark...in towns you can see
circles of light around the lampposts...outdoors there are lighthouses
with a beam of light that circles...

There are many new types of NPC's...they also have twice the speech
capability of U4. They (hopefully) will travel about the town in an
intelligent manner rather than randomly. Towns are all (most all),
multi stories tall...the shopkeepers' houses are often above their
shops, and they have the appropriate furnishings, etc. Combat will have
two attack commands -- (A) and (^A) -- for the old normal attacks and
the new (controlled attack) for choosing who to strike anywhere on the
screen, by means of cross hairs that you place on your target. As far
as the plot goes...I won't tell, except...

<[Lord British]> ...that the bad guys will do well in this game...
<[Lord British]> ...and also there is a whole Underworld...
<[Tyger Von] S.HALL> (killer)
<[Lord British]> ...the same size as the surface (256x256) to explore in the
darkness...and and and...thats all for now! GA

There is also this website with this information:

Moongates

So I'll assume 256x256 is a damn good estimate if not right on the money.

---- edit ----

Would the server been able to handle maps that big (256x256) or greater? Or do you think it would have lagged like a sleeping slug being slorped down in a tarpit?

[stegos]

I just realized something (again). Yeah, it means more work for you Egg, but maybe it'll mean less work for you and map-proof-readers. Lemme explain. Part of my problem, other than creativity, in making maps is not being able to see in the editor how you see it in the game. So maybe another "zoom" mode could be added that would have occlusion, blacking out the tiles not in "your" line of sight. That point of view would be the square in the center of the screen. Maybe the logic and code from the client could be used for that. From my limited viewpoint, the hard part would then be allowing the map editor to scroll the center of the POV all the way to the edge of the map. Maybe a thin bounding line could mark the edge of the map, and beyond that merely repeat what is in (0,0), the "base" tile, or just make it Endless Darkness. Whaddaya think?

[Ruki]

BDO uses a "chunk" system when drawing terrain, to make it easy to draw very large maps

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2964/me1ty9.png

I think EUO needs bigger maps maybe egg can use this idea too?

Another random screen

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5025/mapedpn6.png

[eggmceye]

chunks as in prefab chunks of land? that is how dransik classic did it.

[Grodst]

dransik, that's a name I haven't heard in a long while!