fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby SanJorge » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:12 am

I can only ask WHY?
to make the game unflexible maybe.
I thought i could make a light fighter with 50/50 . Tried in old times and failed , not much win from high dex.
But there was a update to dodge fireballs , i wanted to try again, but with that change i would lose 50% stats instead of 25%.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:05 am

SanJorge wrote:I can only ask WHY?
to make the game unflexible maybe.
I thought i could make a light fighter with 50/50 . Tried in old times and failed , not much win from high dex.
But there was a update to dodge fireballs , i wanted to try again, but with that change i would lose 50% stats instead of 25%.


Yeh. I was also wondering what happened to old "light 50/50 fighters". But after little investigation found that "light 50/50 fighter" is separated to own super nice class nowadays... Monks! http://euotopia.com/manual/index.php/Class_Skills#Monk_Skills
I really need to test monks also... They seems to have bunch of nice skills and unique tactics. Definitely good move to separate it from fighters!

50/50 fighter is really under powered nowadays. But there is really no problem because of monks.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby SanJorge » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:04 am

Got a idea , any 1h Fighterweapon gets 75/25 Str/Dex ratio , any 2h Fighterweapon gets 90/10 Str/dex ratio.

or we could go a bit further 1h + shield 75/25 Str/Dex , 1h without shield 50/50.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:34 am

SanJorge wrote:Got a idea , any 1h Fighterweapon gets 75/25 Str/Dex ratio , any 2h Fighterweapon gets 90/10 Str/dex ratio,


Might work on pure PVE. But this rip off PVP/lot tactics from char that uses 2-h (and visa verca). Like making foils 10/90 and keep ss 75/25 for rogues (and No I am NOT suggest this for rogues. Just example)

But not bad idea.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby EmoMage » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:08 am

SanJorge wrote:Got a idea , any 1h Fighterweapon gets 75/25 Str/Dex ratio , any 2h Fighterweapon gets 90/10 Str/dex ratio.

or we could go a bit further 1h + shield 75/25 Str/Dex , 1h without shield 50/50.



i don't like this at all, only because there's times i want to fight with a shield and there's times i want to use a 2h weapon. i'm not going to buy a respec certificate just because i feel like equipping a shield. that's retarded, IMO.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:31 am

EmoMage wrote:
SanJorge wrote:Got a idea , any 1h Fighterweapon gets 75/25 Str/Dex ratio , any 2h Fighterweapon gets 90/10 Str/dex ratio.

or we could go a bit further 1h + shield 75/25 Str/Dex , 1h without shield 50/50.



i don't like this at all, only because there's times i want to fight with a shield and there's times i want to use a 2h weapon. i'm not going to buy a respec certificate just because i feel like equipping a shield. that's retarded, IMO.


Yep. Much like this.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Tink » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:23 am

Are you guys still whining about this?
Play a different class already LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Azalynn » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:19 pm

Tink wrote:Are you guys still whining about this?
Play a different class already LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON.

If youre here to complain about what we are discussing on the internet because youre not interested in it, you've got a long fight ahead of yourself, the internets a pretty big place. Its a forums, what else would be in here but a bunch of discussion, that might actually be the point. :--;:
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:23 pm

Did some testings:

Wroted earlier:
"I suggested in ideas thread making certain weapon types (shortswords, foils, longswords, unarmed, maybe even pole arms) into "finesse" weapons where the damage is determined by the total sum of your strength and dex, disregarding ratios. I feel like this would allow more variety for offense and defense."

After testing (I tested only HP not even AS):
This finesse idea seems break game. Tested rogue (lvl 450) with 90% STR and 10% DEX. HP went ~1300 TO -> 2550 (Not even HP buff just STR food buffs)

Seems like this change would DOUBLE rogues HP for free. This would make rogue as tanky as fighters. I counted that higher lvl rogues can go even ratio STR 95% DEX 5% when difference is even worser.

As rogues weakness is lower HP and pros are hiding/back stab and super duel wield weapon.
This change would be same as giving fighter free back stab/hide and duel wield for free or doubling HP to 5000!. So I cannot suggest this.
Last edited by Heikki on Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:33 pm

BTW:
Also noticed that fighters can stll use UA-skill (50 STR / 50 DEX) and NEW staffs-skill (50 STR / 50 DEX) so there is 2 high DEX skills already. Even more I suggest to kick long swords and maybe even axes to 90/10. Then there is all tactical choices to fighters. (Damage output is almost same just more tactical choices)
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby SanJorge » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:02 pm

Monks use only UA weapons , thats the difference to 50/50 fighter (axe and sword at least).
And you can combine to fighter/monk.
I had a idea to make a low HP fighter 25/75, i guess thats too hard, dodge isnt that strong even after some buff.

Fighter/Monk 3k dex 1k str, runed sword maybe orc, have fun doing specials all the time.

I am on linux , i will play again if i get my old windows pc run properly.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:40 pm

SanJorge wrote:Fighter/Monk 3k dex 1k str, runed sword maybe orc, have fun doing specials all the time.


Yhe 75% dex and 25% str would be very un effective fighter. Even un effective monk. U should consider rogue with 75% dex str 25%. If ya are not rping :P.

Or maybe rise for 50/50 and take UA and Staffs?
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby SanJorge » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:20 am

It looks like the next step to remove RP possibility , reminds me of remove cooloffpenalty of heavy armor for mages or attack speed penalty for shield (if it still exist) or repair stuff (i had never a problem with it) , yea make the game more and more simple, so you want your char use all weapons with their full power without specializing now.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 am

SanJorge wrote:It looks like the next step to remove RP possibility , reminds me of remove cooloffpenalty of heavy armor for mages or attack speed penalty for shield (if it still exist) or repair stuff (i had never a problem with it) , yea make the game more and more simple, so you want your char use all weapons with their full power without specializing now.


Oh you get it all wrong. Sorry if I was not clear.
You should read whole thread to get point. Idea is just put more tactical elements for fighters NOT less. At this point there is just one way to be effective and it is to use great mauls (So rpg-palyers can use any ..but for leveling (aka normal pve) use ONLY great mauls). There is no room for specializing, tactical play or diversity if you want play effective nowadays. Just one weapon + special move.

Even after possible change great maul + special would be fastest way to get XP. But at least then there will be different ways to play effective.

I don't want fighters any stronger. They are very balanced on damage output now. Just veeeeery simple (boring?)... even LOT simpler than years ago when every weapons got only one special move.
RP is totally OK! But is it OK to put axes, long swords, staffs, UA (and even majority of maces) only for rping?

Also STR 75% / DEX 25% for majority of weapons (Or STR 80% / DEX 20%) would work great! But this would mean like 15% or 10% nerf for fighters... But is nerf needed.. I think no?
It works as long as majority (for tactical play) of weapons got same ratio.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Azalynn » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:23 am

I agree with Heikki, we don't necessarily need more damage just the diversity is where we would gain the most value. I don't mind fighters being simple, I think they are still great fun to play, still my favorite class. I just wish I could EFFECTIVELY use my axes and longswords that are decent. It sucks them sitting on the tables in my house not being able to effectively use when I have a weapon that I made in two seconds with vermilion vs a pve weapon I found that there are only a few found in the entire game and its also entirely worthless right now. Cool, but worthless. Make all fighter weapons 8/1 or 7/1 and call it a day haha
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:35 am

Azalynn wrote:I agree with Heikki, we don't necessarily need more damage just the diversity is where we would gain the most value. I don't mind fighters being simple, I think they are still great fun to play, still my favorite class. I just wish I could EFFECTIVELY use my axes and longswords that are decent. It sucks them sitting on the tables in my house not being able to effectively use when I have a weapon that I made in two seconds with vermilion vs a pve weapon I found that there are only a few found in the entire game and its also entirely worthless right now. Cool, but worthless. Make all fighter weapons 8/1 or 7/1 and call it a day haha


Yep. Just that

SanJorge wrote:I had a idea to make a low HP fighter 25/75, i guess thats too hard, dodge isnt that strong even after some buff.
Fighter/Monk 3k dex 1k str, runed sword maybe orc, have fun doing specials all the time.

also
SanJorge wrote:It looks like the next step to remove RP possibility.


25%(STR) and 75%(DEX) character is great for RP. But it is already 50% off from STR and 50% off from DEX opimization for long swords that is 75%(STR)/25%(DEX). So will further 15% ruin this kind "RP char"?
15% is LOT for effective PVE but maybe not so much ro RP character that is already "un effective".

Side note for this:
Azalynn wrote:when I have a weapon that I made in two seconds with vermilion


Yep. You could craft dozens "most effective weapons in game" in few minutes. I have hunted hundreds of hours and never got loot like "as god as vermilion weapons" ... Anyways this is totally another story.. but should also be fixed asap IMO.
Last edited by Heikki on Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Onyxt » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:42 am

Heikki wrote:Side note for this:
Azalynn wrote:when I have a weapon that I made in two seconds with vermilion


Yep. You could craft dozens "most effective weapons in game" in few minutes. I have hunted hundreds of hours and never got loot like "vermilion weapons" ... Anyways this is totally another story.. but should also be fixed asap IMO.

Make VF do way less damage as an enchant if you think its broken. It already does less than VAM.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Keighn » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:46 am

Foils have 2 latent defensive abilities: parry and riposte.
Perhaps create similar (but entirely different latent abilities for orher class weapons.

I tend to think there should be a block for monks, rogues, and priests. Not being tanks perhaps lesser degrees and utility. Ie... Main gauche for rogues (it gave +1 def in u5)

Shield for priest (it can block but to such a less extent)

Monks must have a monk ua weapon equipped to block not just gloves.

Allow dodge with shield.

Another level of specials at 100% (that can ONLY) be used with said weapon class.

Rogue: 25/75 str/dex
Fighter 90/10 str/dex
Monk 50/50 str/dex
Priest 90/10 str/dex
Necromancer (i forgot what it is now)
Mages don't have a weapon unless you create wand class (think heretic/hexen)

And there are staves (unclassed)
I guess improvised weapons too (pan, apple, rock, lumber, etc)

Don't know anything about druids.

Its a big rework but some simplication. The class rules the weapons but each will have its own perk.

Might i say only fighter have shield bash but also a autoparry at a certain % just like foils bur less effective. The incentive to use 1 handers more.

Cross classing is still twitchy so choose your prime class % or be happy with lesser %. You might not min/max but you work.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Azalynn » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:55 am

Keighn wrote:Might i say only fighter have shield bash but also a autoparry at a certain % just like foils bur less effective. The incentive to use 1 handers more.

Honestly even after extensive testing on half trolls at 1k the problem is you deal slightly less damage with the same quality weapons and enchants than if you just roll dwarf or half orc but you have no benefit with a half troll. I dunno. Maybe thats a base damage problem with one handers, not sure.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Keighn » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:20 am

I swore dual wield used to be faster. I never was a dps addict so i don't know.

Never finished my testing of lvl 1-1k dwarf fighter but dn they do have a huge reserve even as fighter priest.
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