fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

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fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby EmoMage » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:42 am

i seem to remember talks about foils going from 10/90 *str/dex* split to 25/75. can anyone confirm what foils are now?
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Mackey » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:13 pm

EmoMage wrote:i seem to remember talks about foils going from 10/90 *str/dex* split to 25/75. can anyone confirm what foils are now?

All rogue weps are 75/25
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Azalynn » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:03 pm

Mackey wrote:
EmoMage wrote:i seem to remember talks about foils going from 10/90 *str/dex* split to 25/75. can anyone confirm what foils are now?

All rogue weps are 75/25

This is why I think its so strange fighters don't have this kinda ratio class wide
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Keighn » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:28 am

If implemented make it 90/10 .... More hp for fighters. Just check on alpha with a lvl 1k and see.
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby eggmceye » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:18 am

Mackey wrote:
EmoMage wrote:i seem to remember talks about foils going from 10/90 *str/dex* split to 25/75. can anyone confirm what foils are now?

All rogue weps are 75/25


it's true tho I don't remember doing it
and fighters' ratios are staying as they are for time being, because the 90/10 is better for pve and 75/25 better for pvp, apparently (dodge)

be cool if was easier to switch between the 2 builds w/o a respec tho
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby EmoMage » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:18 pm

Mackey wrote:
EmoMage wrote:i seem to remember talks about foils going from 10/90 *str/dex* split to 25/75. can anyone confirm what foils are now?

All rogue weps are 75/25


thanks.

eggmceye wrote:be cool if was easier to switch between the 2 builds w/o a respec tho


respec's aren't used all the time. if ever, it's 95% of the time with a race change. maybe make respec certs 100k gold or something so gold sorta has a use again? just a thought.
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Azalynn » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:55 pm

Meh, i get it but im sad about it. X-D
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Heikki » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:30 pm

Mackey wrote:
EmoMage wrote:i seem to remember talks about foils going from 10/90 *str/dex* split to 25/75. can anyone confirm what foils are now?

All rogue weps are 75/25


Yeh. If u want diversity you should take rogue. Fighters are more like "raw power" class nowadays. So you have tree choises: great maul, great maul or great maul if you want be effective. (Maybe 1-handed mace with MR shield in low lvl... but change it to great maul later :) ). I just tested on alpha that you will loose about 30-40 lvls (even more with buffs) if you use 25/75 on pve. So long swords and axes are more like multi class pvp rogue weapons nowadays.

eggmceye wrote:be cool if was easier to switch between the 2 builds w/o a respec tho


It would be super cool... Because there is lot of place for "tactical playing" still. Like:
You can use cleave + flurry (Claymore) combo to bloodkins/shadowfolks... or thunder clap + flurry (Great maul) to high bosses... or just flurry/ thunder bolt (Great maul) on crowl control. Or thunder clap (Halberd) for semi bosses that summons.. or shield + cleave boss shadow lords.. Anyways now "raw power" with "great mauls + flurry (Great maul)" overrides all "tactical elements". It is TOTALLY OK and I love that my fighter got so huge boost for changing from swords to maces.. but I would love to see fighters more tactical class also. It is really (too?) simple now get maxmum benefit from class.

About "longs swords with dodge" versus "maces with high AS, high HP and Damage" in PVE:
Truth is that dodge is almost useless in PVE. On low levels where you (might?) need it.... high def + block are still like 20 x more effective. (Also you have low DEX on low levels so way to go is: mace + shield + def + highest possible HP from STR against monsters that uses only melee.) About in lvl 150 even block and def comes useless because most of monsters are caster so high MR and HP is your "defence" after that. (There is rare monsters as shadow lords in high lvl where you need block... but then shield + block NO dodge)
Dodge is nice bonus in PVP. Not necessary even there... but still nice free bonus from high dex (Rogue multi classers have most use for this)

****EDIT FORGOT THIS RED TEXT SOLUTION UNDER!****
(But to be honest I think x% for all weapon type STR and y% for all weapon DEX type is only working way). Hunting might also become more interesting because now 75% fighters weapon drops are almost not worth of identifying :uhh:


EDIT + ADD:
I think i found solution to keep 25%/75% for PVP and get diversity to PVE!


Solution:
A)
Change Swords to 90/10.
With this PVE players get all wanted tactical combos:
cleave + flurry (Claymore, longswords)
flurry/ thunder bolt (Great maul, maces)
high damage dealing thunder clap (Halberd)
even cleave + shield (long sword + shield) combo comes handy on situations like "boss shadow lord".

B)
lets keep Axes as 75/25.. and PVP players still got most wanted "PVP moves" like cleave + flurry.. and also good ratio for dodge still.
Also axes got weapon that fits better on PVP with shield than PVM (Fast one handed: like cleaver).. and swords got bulky claymores that are great for PVM
And at last I have had always kept axes more like PVP weapons.

This change would make fighter from "great mauler" to tactical class that can use many different tactics on different situation. (Now this kind of tactics are worthless because "great maul is hammer that fits on every nail") And don't get me wrong.. I do not wan't boost for fighter (So making swords equal with maces).. just diversity to make playing more interesting. There is only one "con" on this... Maybe egg should offer free respec those who wants to convert? :whistle:
Last edited by Heikki on Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Azalynn » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:37 am

Why wouldnt you just make it a stance? That seems to be the easiest way.
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Heikki » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:55 am

Azalynn wrote:Why wouldnt you just make it a stance? That seems to be the easiest way.


That was first also on my mind.. but even with stance you loose with 75/25 VS 10/90 so much damage/HP/AS (PVE) that there is zero reason to use other than 10/90 Great Maul + Flurry. So we are back to original diversity problem again.

Also I think Swords to 10/90 is as easy as just one config number ans server restart. So it is easy to put on (and also off if not good)
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Keighn » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:51 am

Flurry has its places but when you get up to 1k with a hammer you clear many areas with thunderclap. I can't recall my personal splash damage but but was nice.

For rping other weapons are nice. Min/maxers wil powergame.
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Azalynn » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:24 am

Heikki wrote:
Azalynn wrote:Why wouldnt you just make it a stance? That seems to be the easiest way.


That was first also on my mind.. but even with stance you loose with 75/25 VS 10/90 so much damage/HP/AS (PVE) that there is zero reason to use other than 10/90 Great Maul + Flurry. So we are back to original diversity problem again.

Also I think Swords to 10/90 is as easy as just one config number ans server restart. So it is easy to put on (and also off if not good)

Well i mean i use a halberd and use bloodbolt, either way its the same kinda thing. I also dont feel like there is enough pvp in any way shape or form for that to change the decision. Especially compared to the PvE involvement of players nowadays which is literally everyone.
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Re: FAQ/QUESTIONS/OTHER STUFF

Postby Heikki » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:00 pm

Keighn wrote:Flurry has its places but when you get up to 1k with a hammer you clear many areas with thunderclap. I can't recall my personal splash damage but but was nice.

For rping other weapons are nice. Min/maxers wil powergame.


Yeh GM with thunderclap is good... We cannot argue about that. It is more like awesome than good!

Anyways I would really like to play with long swords also "as effective PVE weapon". I guess that 90% of new players that makes first fighter in EUO starts with LS (As I did). So it is sad to recognize later that it was just rping or rogue hybrid PVP skill :/. But as I play PVE and not rping (I think most player don't not play for rping long sworders?) I am forced to play with maces if I want be effective.

Also tactical aspect that adding LS to 10/90 is huge... Just from flurry/clap spamming zombie... you could really become tactical player that chooses weapon/shield by enemy... Now there is no need for item change. Great maul is so powerful that it override all tactical elements as I said before.

PS:
Just tested my old PD rogue it is SOOOOO great all in 75/25. And that should NOT be changed!
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Mackey » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:18 pm

I suggested in ideas thread making certain weapon types (shortswords, foils, longswords, unarmed, maybe even pole arms) into "finesse" weapons where the damage is determined by the total sum of your strength and dex, disregarding ratios. I feel like this would allow more variety for offense and defense.

Axes and maxes should be 90/10 str/dex, of course. Maybe make staves Int based like hexblades?
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:26 pm

Mackey wrote:I suggested in ideas thread making certain weapon types (shortswords, foils, longswords, unarmed, maybe even pole arms) into "finesse" weapons where the damage is determined by the total sum of your strength and dex, disregarding ratios. I feel like this would allow more variety for offense and defense.

Axes and maxes should be 90/10 str/dex, of course. Maybe make staves Int based like hexblades?


Also not bad idea but needs "limits":

There should be still limit like 75% DEX and 25% STR for rogue weapons and 75% STR and 25% DEX for fighter weapons. Other wise there will be STR 90% DEX 10% rogues with double short swords and back stab running around lands with fighters AS and HP.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:23 am

@Egg

Any luck you can turn 90% STR and 10% DEX to Alpha server for ALL BUT NO FOILS weapon classes (Fighter and rogues skills) So we can test long swords with 90/10 and ALSO "finesse without limits". No foils so we can compare SS and foils.
Just few days. And we can put result here.
Last edited by Heikki on Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Keighn » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:08 am

Leave staves alone. If you want a classless player then you can uses staves (and for multi classes that are master of no class skill staves become the only weapon they can get 100% in. 50/50 is fine for them imho.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:37 am

Keighn wrote:Leave staves alone.

Yeh. Vote for this. I see also staffs more like mage etc stuff. Edit: "ALL BUT NO FOILS" one post upper there ^^
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Xyst88 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:46 pm

I'm so torn about making my fighter. There are so many items in this game, so many toys I have found that I want a chance to play with them.

We all know this is a grinding game, its brainless in the most perfect way. The game of numbers is life or death for your party and knowing that to be the best you have to be one specific weapon type is a bummer. You want damage, you want to wave clear faster because it drives you closer to that rush when you find the most awesome loot. With there still being a stat difference between weapon skills it creates a meta, one that you follow from level 1 or spend real money to make changes. All those awesome weapons you can never use, never getting to brag and show off your other weapons and forever they sit in your chest or in piles on the floor. There will always be strength and weaknesses to weapons. But from my understanding, one weapon type is far superior and you must follow it from the start.
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Re: fighter (and other class) stat splits argument thread

Postby Heikki » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:04 pm

Xyst88 wrote: But from my understanding, one weapon type is far superior and you must follow it from the start.

Yeh great mauls are far over others...In good and in bad it makes other weapons useless and overrides tactical elements.
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