Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Luxorious » Fri May 02, 2014 12:31 am

Onyxt wrote:Blocking did get boosted a couple years back, its in a good state currently. Sure there's more magic mobs than physical but having it block or resist magic would just be over kill. Also I don't think anyone has mentioned shield bash. That's basically a bad ass aep, mix that with a good enchanted weapon and you got a lethal killing machine.

I mentioned bash in the first post and I agree - bash is pretty useful! Maybe I missed those years, so do you remember what was changed?

I hate to repeat myself, but it's my own fault for my silly/nonsense grammar :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON:
I'm just saying shields should have more to them, same for orbs. It doesn't have to be resistances or def. The whole discussion started from +as/attack with shields/orbs not working.

I'm just trying to be creative - Don't you want a "shield throw" that works like VOG, except the lightning is your shield and it does damage based on your shield and blocking skill. I would sure love to penetrate some red dragon flesh with my crystal buckler +6 (barbed spikes). Wouldn't I love to cast a buff called "Heroism", which has a 1 min cooloff, requires 90 blocking and a shield equipped and raises your block chance a bit and reflects damage to mobs for 5 seconds. Hmm, maybe I could try to polypile myself a "shield boss of blocking" and fuse it to my buckler with armourer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_boss)
Alright, less coffee, I'll shut up now. Meet you at the ideas thread!

HOWEVER it seems I am wrong since the majority (on this discussion) thinks shields should be as they are, or even nerfed a bit.

Thanks,
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Onyxt » Fri May 02, 2014 1:12 am

Luxorious wrote:
Onyxt wrote:Blocking did get boosted a couple years back, its in a good state currently. Sure there's more magic mobs than physical but having it block or resist magic would just be over kill. Also I don't think anyone has mentioned shield bash. That's basically a bad ass aep, mix that with a good enchanted weapon and you got a lethal killing machine.

I mentioned bash in the first post and I agree - bash is pretty useful! Maybe I missed those years, so do you remember what was changed?

Well some would view it as a nerf, but its about direction now. If you're facing the mob or person, the block rate is like 150% and if something is attacking you from behind its like 50%.
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby CinisterD » Fri May 02, 2014 2:00 am

Luxorious wrote: Any class can use a shield
They most definitely cannot. Not usefully at least. Mages can use a shield if they want to ruin their casting rate. :knife:

Luxorious wrote: I don't use tank stance much for other than training my pet or fishing, I don't like losing my damage :cool:
Let me put this gingerly cause I like you, and I think your input is pretty valuable. If you don't use tank stance, thats your loss. You definitely miss out. Instead of changing shields maybe you should try tank stance. Tank stance+ Shark Fin Soup + Feel Great +3 Purple pots = much closer to normal damage, and a hell of a tank!
Last edited by CinisterD on Fri May 02, 2014 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby CinisterD » Fri May 02, 2014 2:08 am

Luxorious wrote:I'm just saying shields should have more to them, same for orbs. It doesn't have to be resistances or def. The whole discussion started from +as/attack with shields/orbs not working.
This should be where the attention is drawn to, I agree AS shields/orbs need to be tweaked/fixed.

Luxorious wrote:I'm just trying to be creative

Good for you! We may disagree, but no one is telling you to stop. Keep the ideas coming!
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Luxorious » Fri May 02, 2014 10:40 pm

You missed my points I think, but my fault probably.
Also, purple pots/sharkfin shoups do not raise your damage, only AS and it's never a problem in higher levels.
However, minotaur stroganoff gives +15% str. That's pretty good, too! Best fighter food IMO.

I said "any class can use shield" to argue against "you can't buff shields because that would make fighters too good" - ie. can't we buff something just because of one class? Null argument.

And I already stated that 2h + tank stance situation, which proves my point that you don't need a shield (if you are using tank stance).
PST. I use myself minotaur stroganoff + feel great + extra stout + vs + vum + sj (always minmaxed / buffed except 24/7 khaki pots).

So if I understand correctly:
-Shields can't be upgraded because it makes fighters too good (bad argument)
-Damage reduction can't be raised/changed because it is too good with tank stance

So why not think outside the box? Maybe if tank stance was on, then the blocking/reduction shouldn't be so good and visa versa - if you have a shield, and especially if you are subclassing for just blocking you should have a decent block - currently block is pretty useless to any other than fighter, like you said yourself CinisterD.
What about those monks, who want an offhand, but are already at +100 as? Well, currently the best option is either philosopher's stone or enigmatic bauble, which are pretty good :smile:

CinisterD put it pretty nicely:
CinisterD wrote:
Luxorious wrote:I'm just saying shields should have more to them, same for orbs. It doesn't have to be resistances or def. The whole discussion started from +as/attack with shields/orbs not working.
This should be where the attention is drawn to, I agree AS shields/orbs need to be tweaked/fixed.


Putting this in red because it bothers me and it's a logical argument error:
If there is an upgrade that would benefit every class, such as sigils for an example, it is INVALID to say we can't have them just because it makes CLASS X too good. It's not about being subjectively biased to your class.

Good shit, I'm not mad, I'm passionate :oops:
Luxorious
Last edited by Luxorious on Fri May 02, 2014 11:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Luxorious » Fri May 02, 2014 11:01 pm

New post because former is too long, just saying this point:

Fighters are our tanks and because of the stat system, they are supposed to have high health and damage. Why? Let me explain.

STR = HP, DMG
DEX = DMG, dodge, movement speed
INT = MANA, MAG DMG
(and other bonuses too, but these should be focused on)

So, a fighter should get 250 dex for maximum movement and the rest goes to str (unless you want few points in int for mana). Since STR = hp, you will have the highest HP while having the highest damage. This is why fighters can take so much. Combine that with tank stance. The situation would be a lot different, if EUO had VIT stat for just hp/hp regen (and no, I'm not proposing that - it's too much).
If you are longswords man, and you go xxxx str / 250 dex it's almost same as equal str and dex - you'll lose roughly 3-10 damage per hit but gain 200-300 hp - numbers depend on your level of course and I tested this on alpha.

SO TLDR; Even without tank stance or that shield reduction, it's obvious fighters can handle a lot - especially in PD because of the maximum lvl 1000.
If we imagine that tank stance didn't exist, is there any reason we can't buff shields in some way?

Thanks,
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Keighn » Sat May 03, 2014 3:21 am

STR = weight allowance also.
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Heniek » Sat May 03, 2014 3:59 am

I don't see what tanking stance has to do with shield magic dmg reduction. I tried to point out in my previous post, that as a fighter all you need is high hp, full heavy armour set for damage reduction and shield for even further damage reduction, to be able to take on stuff other classes on equal level usually can not. And you don't need tank stance to do so. As I said ocasionally it's very useful, but you don't need it (unless you want to take on really dangerous monsters). Now if you will boost* shields, you will make already strongest and easiest (or rather I should say "safest") class even better. That's why I don't think it's good idea. So basically:

Luxorious wrote:So if I understand correctly:
-Shields can't be upgraded because it makes fighters too good (bad argument)


I'd say it's pretty valid argument. Shield upgrade as proposed (better damage reduction) would make them better. And while this is true that almost anyone can use shield (well maybe except for mages) but that doesn't change fact that:

a) shields are used mostly by fighters, using them with other classes comes with restrictions (rogues can't dual wield, monks lose their increased crit hits (? I think so))
b) in my opinion there is no point in making already strongest class even better. I'd rather like to see other means to avoid magic damage for other classes: like ability to dodge incoming magical attacks for rogues (requires at least 75/25 str/dex ratio) or ability to reflect some of magical damage

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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Thedirtyking » Thu May 29, 2014 12:37 pm

Would like to see monks be able to use thier specials with monk wep in one hand n shield in other really screwe me out of pvp tourney . Shield bash would be cool too but that seems to only be if u have skill , which is lame , I think anyone holding a shield should be able to use shield bash. Other shield moves would be cool like a dash that pushes monsters n u the direction used, and a move like whirl wind that knock s all monsters around u back a square ;) doge could be better for monks if anything as shields work I tried them as goes up. N I use the sun protection shield on my Mage Noel it's not the best but it works if I don't walk ( cast slower of course)
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Keighn » Thu May 29, 2014 8:51 pm

Charge really should be usable with all weapons since it is a generic buy. Priests would love to have something extra for melee and I love charge. Monks also would benefit as would rogues. I need to use shield bash more but it seems pretty solid.
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Devlin » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:27 pm

I'm all up for boosting shield magic damage reduction from 10% to 15-25%.

I wear all MR gear and I'm sick to death of getting smashed to bits by magic users who hit me for 100s over and over. Or heroics, that just smash me in 2-3 hits despite being normally being cannon fodder.
There's so many areas I just *won't* go to because of the fact I get hammered by magic, even areas that are supposed to be for my level(192). I don't want to always be in tank stance just to fight, because that's boring. It removes the danger and slows everything right the fuck down, which makes it even more boring.

Just my 2p there for ya.
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby DrDisco » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:45 pm

Devlin wrote:I'm all up for boosting shield magic damage reduction from 10% to 15-25%.

I wear all MR gear and I'm sick to death of getting smashed to bits by magic users who hit me for 100s over and over. Or heroics, that just smash me in 2-3 hits despite being normally being cannon fodder.
There's so many areas I just *won't* go to because of the fact I get hammered by magic, even areas that are supposed to be for my level(192). I don't want to always be in tank stance just to fight, because that's boring. It removes the danger and slows everything right the fuck down, which makes it even more boring.

Just my 2p there for ya.

I think higher MR gear should be sold - me I can remember playing this game and same problem as you :cry:
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Sarge » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:46 am

Since this is my first post I'll introduce myself first.

Hi, my name is Sarge and I'm not an alcoholic despite my odd behaviour. Also, I despise long walks on the beach - it's tiring and you get chaff rashes from the sand getting everywhere.

Then, apologies for necro'ing this thread in case I missed one more apt, but this is the only result returned under advanced search with "shields" in the topic title.

I would like to know some stats on shields that are not displayed in the in-game tooltips:

- Do different shield types have different base block chances? (small/large/heater/kite...)
- Do they have any spell block chance?
- How is block chance calculated, i.e. what is the formula?
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Assailant » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:16 am

There's some good discussion in this thread on blocking but if you ever have any questions you can go here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1025&start=1900 :mrgreen:
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Sarge » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:22 am

Assailant wrote:There's some good discussion in this thread on blocking but if you ever have any questions you can go here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1025&start=1900 :mrgreen:


Ah, tyvm.
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Re: Let's talk about shields, orbs & blocking

Postby Keighn » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:24 am

I don’t recall seeing an answer in the link. Sometimes threads just on one topic like this are a plus as they don’t usually deviate. That said, I swear there was an answer either in development or guides. Search fu is failing though.
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