Proposal for appointing clans to halls

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Keighn
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

I'm not sure any of us are too concerned about clanhalls on pd. I might be wrong. Maybe there is some utilitarian use for the halls there. I rather like the d12 portals for convenience at times or their fountains. Chests/crafting? eh I have a house and that's good for me.

Now, if we could have gardens, breweries and stuff in the halls.. that'd be a different story. I really think the clan hall structure needs to change so that the halls feel more alive. ie gardens, breweries, maybe printing presses, banking facilities that earn interest, NPC paid workers that do autocrafting of items for when people are away.

Maybe even mining, fishing, gem cutting, logging, etc.

Make the halls feel and look alive so people want to be part of "that" clan. Otherwise its just a giant house.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by CIAassassin »

"clan wars" when there is a pvp 0 now, and "drama" with /ignore [playername]... what are we going to do, sit there and stare at eachother till someone logs or walks away? The drama comes from people getting the panties in a twist over stupid things they cannont control. Clans are meant to form a bond of the player base in the respective clan, and clans are supposed to be different from eachother. Right now the only difference between the clans are who has a hall and who doesn't.

Take away from the thread that sounds good, and my thoughts:

True siegeable halls, everything can be destroyed/rebuilt.
Halls need to be stocked so "workers" can rebuild, nothing is made for the player but can increase skill
Halls are mini games of sorts, if the opposing clan gets to the flag of the hall, they get the hall (limit one per clan)
All players in a clan can BE IN ONE CLAN ONLY eliminates multi clan hall monopoly threat
Automated notification to clan if another clan is attempting a siege
allow leader of clan a /setalliance [clan tag] command
Halls dont get automatically transfered to the next highest clan, if avg inactivity is at a certain % hall simply goes vacant and you have to siege the tower to take it. Same goes if a clan sieges a new hall, the old one goes vacant.
Im not sure if this is possible: but the longer you hold a hall, the bigger it can get. Add turrets and walls for defence, allow for more to be done in the hall itself. Make it a castle of sorts. To a max size of course, and would require MASSIVE amounts of resources to increase the size.
Halls have a limited space to act as trailerpark housing for non-clan players, excludes alts of players in a clan. A fraction of the gold goes to the clan for repairs/buying supplies etc. None is seen by the player, it is added into a non-removeable gold bank dedicated to the hall. Players living on the land can get boosts.
A way to build underground as well, for vampires and to add a bit of depth to the hall.
Some kind of limitation that there has to be a certain number of people logged on to perform a siege as well.

This might take things a bit too far but Ill throw it in there: PLAYER ITEMS IN HALLS THAT ARE LOST TO SIEGE STAY IN HALL FOR WINNING CLAN
Players in a clan WITH A CLAN HALL cannot have a house, they MUST USE the clan hall as their house. (would give more of an incentive to not lose a siege, and form a bond with the hall)

As far as clan ranking system:
If you are in a clan, you are PvP. Always. You cannot turn it on or off
Formula works as is but add:
get points for how long you hold a clan hall (minor)
get points for repelling a siege (major)
get points for taking a hall (massive)
get points for killing other clan members (in a level bubble ie, a level 450 doesnt get points for killing a level 1) (minor but scale with level of player)
get points for alliances when mutual trade is established, ex: trade route set up for hall supplies to be delivered between the halls. (minor but scale with duration of alliance/amount traded)
get points for recruiting a new player (minor)
lose points for losing a siege/hall (massive)
lose points for death (minor but scale with level of player)
lose points for durations of no recruiting (minor)
lose points for short duration recruits, ie resources jumpers who jump from clan to clan to go where items/skill boosting is highest.

Note: Death in a clan fight outside of the arena automatically, and instantly, resurrects you in a holding cell for 2 minutes, and randomly teleports you somewhere on the continent to avoid campers. This would eliminate resurrection kills of undead players, and would mitigate harassment of multi-kills at a shrine. Arena acts as is.


I dont know how keen you would be about this egg: maybe make the OLD clan halls (that you are fond of) a permanent fixture and replace them with new siegeable halls. Kind of like how IAG became haunted, only not... :fp: if that makes any sense
Last edited by CIAassassin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

That's pretty cool expansion of what I was thinking.

Parts NOT fond of:
PVP all the time: Maybe only while sieging the halls pvp all the time.
Maybe if alt is set to pvp it has a higher score for the clan.
I'd probably never join a clan if I couldn't have a house.

Make resources in the hall only usable there. Or only so many could be removed per day by a member. I'm mostly thinking of building materials for the clan hall and not potions and such.

Do like:
About all of it and the idea items lost go to the siege winner.

Love the idea. A hall that turns into a fortress over time. I'd say change hall sizes for these buildable battlegrounds to 100x100 with a central spot where you are resurrected. (or a few spots depending on if you are the defender or attackers. (make sure it isn't permadeath if done on pd as we might love this idea). Or make it restricted to reg server.. Really doesn't matter.

It would be could to have living resources that could be destroyed or built in the hall. Also like attackable servants/guards. I think another option is stealth for raiding and sabotaging the fortification: poisoning water supplies, stealing from treasury, murdering guards.

This really almost makes it a mini god game of sorts but I hope it doesn't step on Crypt Wizard's toes.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by CIAassassin »

I say PvP all the time because it's part of the rating system. The map is big enough you can avoid most fighting anyway, and at later levels where PvP mostly occurs you really don't need to be near towns anyway (makes clan hunting a possibility) Maybe make a massive loss to points if another clan kills a member much lower than them, and if they outnumber them. Keep it honorable and such.

Like I said on the house thing, might take it too far. My rationale behind it was that players in a clan would use the house to bank everything, and there would be 0 incentive to actually use/siege the hall. Think of it like this: when a knight becomes a knight, his house is the castle. He is appointed land, but that serves him he doesnt live there. (as far as I know...) I was also going to say we can't use the bank anymore... but that was a tad much even for my tastes. Not having a house, when you have a castle (with all amenities, which is why people get houses anyway [please note I do have 2 houses in game]) seems like a fair trade when you can put your good gear in the bank/merchant and not have to worry about losing it. :roll: I also edited the above post about houses.

Player used items such as potions and the like can be taken and used by the players. Im implying things like ore/lumber/logs etc that are added to the hall only chest, for lack of better description, are for the hall only. Once in the chest, they CANNOT BE TAKEN OUT. There would be other places to store crafting stuff that would be for the player base.

As far as building in size, I mean that literally. Kinda like how you can build in eggs Crypt Wizard game, the leader plans out a new area and it will take time and resources to complete. Not a "the clan has been here for X amount of time grow to Y size." This was for new recruits, to build their rooms and such.

Resurrections should happen at a town, not in the tower, for attackers. A siege would be indefinite if attackers resurrected in the tower.

I like the sabotauge and stuff. Halls should be located in diverse areas as well, some with better/different resources than others. Would add to the incentive to find the best hall for resources and a reason siege and defend it.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by CIAassassin »

Possibility for clan halls:

A few small prebuilt clan halls that new clans can use as is and not change, to get a taste of having a hall and see what sieges are about. All of them have the same floor plan. Only difference is the locations.

Minimum of 5 unique active accounts to use
Active for at least 1 month
No level req
Have to Capture the Keep
>50% inactivity the hall is wiped and vacant again
No Clan Rank Req

and 6 true clan halls with the above rules for such.

Minimum of 10 unique active accounts to use
Active for at least 6 months
Minimum level of 225 (leader) to use
Have to Capture the Keep
Never wiped, but can be sieged
250 Clan Rank Req
>80% inactive hall goes to vacant status and can be sieged.

All current clan halls are turned to monuments and kept as is, for history sake. An event for the 6 new clan halls to siege and capture them. Not sure if the clans should be disbanded or not.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by DrRude »

eggmceye wrote:
xShawtyx wrote:I'm over clan wars. I see a repeat of what happened a few years ago and a lot of drama occurring.
Agreed ... I'm not sure how good all the drama is for the game / community

I wonder how much drama a scoreboard (even with a open formula for scoring) is going to create
The clan drama and people-on-people drama chased a lot of people away.

EDIT:

And the last clan hall battle I saw a few years ago was basically a slaughter because there was a great disparity in the masses. One group had the benefit of incredible levels and sittin on some of the best weapons and armor and such since Day 1. The other group was comprised of people who came later in the game. It was like watching The Avengers beat up on pre-schoolers.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by DrRude »

Adding some food for thought...

Throughout the history of civilization, the reason people formed clans in the first place was to help each other stay alive in a hostile world. Clans also provided a better quality of life for those in the collective.

If you really want to get technical with it, most of this talk about formulas and the like is almost a moot point.

On the regular server where there is no threat of loss due to permanent death, clans are basically just a fancy way to have fraternity houses with mutual access to a collection of weapons, armor and artifacts. Clans are there to help lower level players get a helping hand to achieve higher levels. Without the risk of permanent death, however, there is no real motivation for players to stay in a clan other than honor and personal loyalty.

Threatening to boot players out of a clan due to inactivity is a laughably empty threat. People come and go out of the game constantly, especially if they have real life responsibilities that don't allow them to be ingame for many hours during the week. Chasing down players and demanding that they play just to keep clan participation numbers up is also pretty silly. Even giving away gold isn't much a motivator, either.

And while there was some interesting challenge with clan scoreboards, all that did was breed scorehounds. Not to bash the early players but the players who have practically been around since Day 1 were generally at the top of the rankings and then there was "everyone else".

The way I see it, the existence of clans provides a cultural and historical backdrop for the game more than anything else, which is a good thing. Once that is opened up to "formulas", you'll end up with big houses that get gutted a few times and the same deity-level players that have ranked at the top of the game since the early days will end up with most of the loot (if not all of it).
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

Bringing up old thread and Doc Rude is pretty cool in that observation. Even I falter at the thought that I never gave MIB much of a backdrop into EUO history. For a small pet project for an archivist; anyone care to list the clans in the order of when they appeared and maybe contact the creators of those clans to see if they would like to create some backstory to their clan?
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by DrRude »

Keighn wrote:Bringing up old thread and Doc Rude is pretty cool in that observation. Even I falter at the thought that I never gave MIB much of a backdrop into EUO history. For a small pet project for an archivist; anyone care to list the clans in the order of when they appeared and maybe contact the creators of those clans to see if they would like to create some backstory to their clan?
I've been tinkering with the idea of doing this for SPT. I started by going through the SPT threads here in the EUO forums because they go back to 2007 or so. It did a great job of refreshing my memory of what has transpired since then and who I should interview regarding events that happened before the EUO forums were established. The downside is that it also reminded me just how much unnecessary drama can tear apart a clan and take away from the spirit of the game overall. Ultimately whatever research process works could be applied to all the clans, active and defunct.

Another idea came to mind was to look at the raw database tables for the clan information, especially if it logged information with date and time stamps. That would at least give us a geological record to start with. I'm thinking something like this would best be done with a bit of literary flair mixed in with actual players and events. The old saying "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend" applies here.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by eggmceye »

Unfortunately there is no database records perse indicating creation dates, member history, etc. You could trawl thru the forums looking for clues as to the order & history of the oldest clans. I'm sure it's been written about.

Regarding halls: I'm 99% over the idea of halls changing hands by some automated means. I'm still open to manual takeovers if there is strong cause for it. That is the sort of thing that would happen once in a blue moon though.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

I was lucky some of my members remember MIBs starting. I was dumb at one points and erased some entries but it was sort of part of the MIB insanity.

Other clans well... the really old ones would be a hard case to know esp likes SPAM, BoN, KoT, and probably a few others.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

Is the manual amended with current clan information?
About clan ranks

There are now 5 ranks. 1 is the highest ranked, ie the leader, 5 is the new member.
Here are the things that the ranks can do within their clan:

1: leader: rename tag, rename clan, move and remove chests, as well as everything below
2: can invite and expel members and create chests, set ranks of members
3: NOT USED ATM - but it will be used for editing halls
4: can use chests - this is your standard clan member
5: can get into the hall only - this is the initiate

leader can set a member's rank with /setrank name 1-5

default ranks for old clans:
leader->1
next 2 members->2
everyone else->4

default rank for newly invited member: 5

future clan expansions
* custom rank titles
* hall redistribution based on clanscore (being developed)
* hall editing ingame
* mutiny by the rank 2's: for when the leader is MIA
clan changes
* scrapped /makekey
* halls can be opened with regular keys or skullkeys, as long as you are in the clan
* clan leaders can /movecontainer
* fixed bugs with leader changes and container ownership - new leaders should be able to move and remove containers
* clan ranks - set with /setrank
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by eggmceye »

feel free to amend it if you like, I will send a password for you if you need it
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

So are those all correct and up to date? I'll put in what I can.

Was thinking of a possible update to clan as I was talking with some clanmates:

rank 3 can use keys to open doors.

Colt asked me if it was possible for various containers and locks to be set up for up for different ranks to open. I told him I thought it was in the works maybe but really didn't know.

So much for ya'll to do and such busy schedules.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

Ok, did small update. Nothing huge but enough to answer my questions for now. Creating a clan
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by KoRnAGAIN »

Keighn wrote:
Colt asked me if it was possible for various containers and locks to be set up for up for different ranks to open. I told him I thought it was in the works maybe but really didn't know.
If this isn't a thing; I believe it would be an awesome addition to the commands.
Controlling certain chest for rank would help or situations like ie- ranks 2 and 1 (sub leader and leader) are the only ones able to access a "gold chest".

Just a thought, but an idea I would love to see implemented.
And like Joe stated; him, me, and Crowley have been discussing a lot of "clan" information lately.
That's why this information is even relevant :).

-Colt
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About Clans Again

Post by Keighn »

Haven't been on much but Scoreboard got me thinking and I can't seem to find the premier clan thread:

Anyways some quotes:
Why is there not an option to have Clan Scoreboards for all Servers. When I hit the clans tab it will only show for the Regular Server. Quite often I'm curious about what clans are there on both NO GRIND and PLAYER DEATH servers.
I know that ALPHA Mirrors reg and now some of NG/PD and its a test server so having a tab for that would be pointless. More than likely a tab for WEEKLY is pointless UNLESS there's some real die-hard PvP action going on which there never is.
Ah, the darkness of clan theft. Here's how I think it should work:

Clanleaders have a special command to /givekey + dir (player next to them (= if clan member) a clanhall key.

Clanhall keys are renamed after the Clans initials (I've always hated that # or letter thingy).

Up to 10 different types of clankeys are available for the clanleader to make. (for up to 10 security clearances): ie. MIB Key 0 = Basic Clan Hall key to open default locked doors. MIB Key 1 = Treasure Chamber. MIB Key 2 = Weapons Locker, etc.

Note: All clanhall keys are SOULBOUND and can only be put in the Bank or dropped into a rubbish bin.

For Personal chests I think a password would be awesome (actually the whole idea of passwords is pretty neat (ala the golem in the werewolf quest). If each chest had the option to have a password to be typed in (clanhall chests only) that would solve a lot of problems.

Clanleader command next to clanchest: /pass xxxxxxxxxx (up to 10 letters/numbers). Default is nothing on the chests or carriage return which sets chest to no password.

Clanleaders can reset passwords for each chest as need be in case a member forgets their password. Additionally a clanleader could have a command /idchest + dir to see the current password for his own clans chests.

Chests without a password open like regular chests. Chests that require a password will have the password entry screen or txt pop up. Failure of password for clanmembers would jus say Access Denied or something like that. While successful password would be Access Granted.

Anyone who isn't a clanleader or is a leader of a clan and attempt to do that to another clans chest to attempt to steal hit the autobanner with the reason (attempt to steal in subtext).

That would clear up a lot of things for members who steal.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

2nd quote is pretty old so I really need to trim it up on thoughts.

EUO is probably the KING of SPACE as far as storage goes. I never played UO, Tibia, and a horde of other MORPGS but EUO truly trumps even old RPGS and I'd say even some RTS and strategy games. Maybe I'm sniffing glue or something but my late MORPG plunge on the net has yielded consistent disappointments.

So I'm bringing up clans again as a topic to set it apart from other MORPGs. What can EUO do that other games can't and what should it do to be better than other games?
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by DrRude »

Keighn wrote:2nd quote is pretty old so I really need to trim it up on thoughts.

EUO is probably the KING of SPACE as far as storage goes. I never played UO, Tibia, and a horde of other MORPGS but EUO truly trumps even old RPGS and I'd say even some RTS and strategy games. Maybe I'm sniffing glue or something but my late MORPG plunge on the net has yielded consistent disappointments.

So I'm bringing up clans again as a topic to set it apart from other MORPGs. What can EUO do that other games can't and what should it do to be better than other games?
While it's admirable to think in terms of EUO in competition with other MORPGs, sometimes that objective isn't in keeping with the spirit of the work itself. From what I've seen, Egg is this kinda iconoclastic Artist/Programmer Cyborg. EUO is an Internet destination as well as a game. Although more players are appreciated and what money comes in is nice for helping to pay server and connection expenses, EUO is more of a labor of love. Trying to analyze it in terms of other games is like trying to find ways to have Perth compete with Paris or vise versa.
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Re: Proposal for appointing clans to halls

Post by Keighn »

Perth?

I actually, don't know how clans are done in other games as my miss/miss with Perfect world showed me nothing of community spirit or anything. Maybe I was just with the wrong crowd. Didn't get into a clan in Wyvern, Dransik, Scarletblade nor this Drakensang.

For me graphics can go only so far. If the core mechanics fail my expectations then I eventually quit the game. EUO I go in play sessions of great length then taper off and explore something else. Currently, now that there are no tourneys nor special events going on I'm just looking around at some diversity. Could be I'm just getting bored of games period as yesterday I spent 5 hours with plastic bags picking up trash, collecting mental xp, tossing trash in barrels for quest xp, then taking damage from my back hurting from bending over so much as I've have two back surgeries and still suffer nerve damage.

Yeah, its getting bad when I start turning trash picking up into a game or shoveling dog crap or vacuuming. My adventure aspect is my 2 3--4 hour walks a day. My encounters, I guess are people either waving or avoiding me.

What's this have to do with clan halls...? Nothing I guess.
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