Map playability poll

"EUO - Further evidence that Diabloesque games kill real role-playing games."

Moderator: EUO Moderators

what is your favourite mapset purely in terms of layout, aesthetics, navigability and playability?

newbie dungeon
1
2%
minotaur halls
13
29%
pendragon
4
9%
VoT
13
29%
blood moor
11
24%
Farimond Dungeon
1
2%
Silvengard tower
1
2%
lava caves
0
No votes
rank dungeon
0
No votes
treacherous caves
1
2%
 
Total votes: 45

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eggmceye
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Map playability poll

Post by eggmceye »

Sup guys

It's probably about time euo got some new maps. However I thought I'd do a survey first.

I'm mostly interested in whether to make random/procedurally generated maps or hand made maps. Here's some pros and cons of each for your perusal:

Handmade - example, minotaur halls
pros:
* lovingly crafted
* can have backstory, npcs, details not available to random maps

cons:
* take effort to make
* get boring to play


Random maps - eg treacherous cave
pros:
* much longer life due to regeneration
* after a lot of programming investment the return is longer lived

cons:
* sterile, buggy, feel like filler


Of course you can do hybrids: eg mondains is a bit of a hybrid with 3 random levels and a fixed end. Also sylvengard is comprised of randomly assembled prefab sections.

I feel like there is a big content expansion/revision coming soon. Maps are central to this and it's something I can get help with.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Eclips »

Handmade ones that allow for exploration. My favorite maps are without a doubt were always ones like mountains pass, Tangled forest and VoT.

Can we have a Maped contest? Winner gets his map coded and put in game. I don't mind using Maped, I just can't get much past the aesthetic parts.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Onyxt »

Eclips wrote:Handmade ones that allow for exploration. My favorite maps are without a doubt were always ones like mountains pass, Tangled forest and VoT.
I strongly agree with Eclips, those maps plus Minotaur Halls have always been my favorite ones. Although the dungeons like Farimond can be nice for people that like the dungeon crawling and surprise factor.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by MoonGoat »

I agree with Onyxt and Eclips.
But hybrid maps would be cool too. Maybe a cool story why some parts are random?
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Flamesoffire »

Personally, I feel like all sorts of maps need added. Not just certain types. But all sorts. For all levels even. To me, It seems the higher your level, The less variety. But even at a low level, You get used to certain maps and get bored. Could use maps with stories to them, Adding quests as well even. Can add exploratory maps. What id like to see, Is a fully random map. Not only does the map layout change, But as does the mobs. Several levels long maybe. Can enter and get a level of rats, Goblins, shadows, Dragons, then minos. Or can really get screwed (The chances of this will be extremely rare, Of course) A level of blood, Then blood, Then blood, Then rats. :P New maps with Heroics would be nice too. Just heroics. Really, A map i love is Tangled. Just for the fact you can spend days in there and still get lost. After several years i can STILL get lost. And i dont even think ive seen all Tangled has to offer. So to conclude. Id really like to see a map or two like that.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Ruel »

COS/The Pit have always been my favorite maps. They give plenty of content for dungeon crawling and even have some difficult areas (depending on player level of course). I personally like maps with multiple layers. Of the choices in the poll, even thought mino halls/The Pit is one of my favs, i voted for BM because it gives a good long stretch of levels to run through that make cruising as a party easy to do. Other than its length and number of mobs its kind of boring though; lacking in the way of puzzle solving or choice making, its pretty linear. But like i said its good for 5 man runs. I think we could use some more maps that are perfect for partying through with some tough mobs, but that is just my personal opinion because I mostly play PD and after lvl 500 its pretty much BM all day if you want items and XP.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Djanno »

I've always loved the handmade maps with the backstory. npcs etc. Like Mounain Pass. VoT, Tangled... (weren't those all Cat's maps? Her maps = :heart: ) Stygian Abyss was my obsession for a loong time too. Tons of character in those type of maps.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by DrRude »

MoonGoat wrote:I agree with Onyxt and Eclips.
But hybrid maps would be cool too. Maybe a cool story why some parts are random?
"According to travelers from other worlds, the long-term effects of powerful magic concentrated in one area bring about unstable places in our world, making cartography impossible. Just like caves are formed over millions of year by the whims of the deities, magic-saturated dungeons have eroded the fabric between parallel universes, causing spaces to phase in and out. No one knows why these shifts happen or how long they last. Due to the dangers throughout those caverns, most adventurers don't stay down there long enough to see what happens when a shift occurs."

(okay, it's a little rough, but hopefully you get the idea)
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by LordMortiferus »

Djanno wrote:I've always loved the handmade maps with the backstory. npcs etc. Like Mounain Pass. VoT, Tangled... (weren't those all Cat's maps? Her maps = :heart: ) [...]
Yeah those maps are amazing to explore. I love VoT because it has a background story, its non linear, has its secrets and its getting more difficult the further you advance in it - up to a point at which you have to take a break from the map and level elsewhere before you can come back and solve the last mysteries of VoT.
Rustys Nizweideux and Deja Vu are fun as well because they are so completely different from the rest.

If you are going to put in new maps, consider to take advantage of new features like tinting and visible weapons. Even if the stats of the mob is the same, such features might add to the experience of the player.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by MoonGoat »

DrRude wrote:
MoonGoat wrote:I agree with Onyxt and Eclips.
But hybrid maps would be cool too. Maybe a cool story why some parts are random?
"According to travelers from other worlds, the long-term effects of powerful magic concentrated in one area bring about unstable places in our world, making cartography impossible. Just like caves are formed over millions of year by the whims of the deities, magic-saturated dungeons have eroded the fabric between parallel universes, causing spaces to phase in and out. No one knows why these shifts happen or how long they last. Due to the dangers throughout those caverns, most adventurers don't stay down there long enough to see what happens when a shift occurs."

(okay, it's a little rough, but hopefully you get the idea)
Nice one :)
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by DrRude »

In Sandy Valley, many of the NPCs appear to be randomized, especially in and around the pub and the huts along the town walls. With the talk of new maps, would it be possible to introduce a new type of NPC -- a standard named NPC with clues and/or a trigger to quest but they have the ability to move randomly around the town where they reside? Or randomly placed within a certain area like they are in Sandy Valley?
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by eggmceye »

nizweideux (222) is mine and it took like 2 years to make on and off :abject:
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Akyla »

Is Silvengard tower that place in the white stone world? (sorry forgot name)... I like it because it has new monsters and LOOKS like it should be a quest yet there isn't one? IMHO finish the quests in the white stone world before new maps, the white stone world (underworld, whatever. shit I can't remember!) is kind of lifeless because the NPC interaction is pretty much nonexistant, unlike the first world. But yeah, new grind spots would be nice! But without quests, etc. it would be just a grind.

I'd actually vote for the mapset with the doppleganger at the end, but I don't remember its name. That was cool! You actually had to think to get through that, but after the first pass-through, it became memorable. How about have it so puzzle maps are like doorways that are randomly selected (not generated) from about 100+++ puzzles maps and make people do some thinking during the grind :D But yea that would be alot of puzzle maps to come up with!

EDIT: Maeondir. I just remembered :D
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Djanno »

eggmceye wrote:nizweideux (222) is mine and it took like 2 years to make on and off :abject:
Great map!! Didn't know you made that one. :smile:
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by eggmceye »

DrRude wrote:
MoonGoat wrote:I agree with Onyxt and Eclips.
But hybrid maps would be cool too. Maybe a cool story why some parts are random?
"According to travelers from other worlds, the long-term effects of powerful magic concentrated in one area bring about unstable places in our world, making cartography impossible. Just like caves are formed over millions of year by the whims of the deities, magic-saturated dungeons have eroded the fabric between parallel universes, causing spaces to phase in and out. No one knows why these shifts happen or how long they last. Due to the dangers throughout those caverns, most adventurers don't stay down there long enough to see what happens when a shift occurs."

(okay, it's a little rough, but hopefully you get the idea)

excellent
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by eggmceye »

actually I need some feedback on the heroic/epic map sets. How do they rate? Are they useful for sub<100 at all ?

Also What's the best maps for the following levels as far as heroic goes - does heroic cover it?
100-200
200-300
300-400 ?
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Onyxt »

eggmceye wrote:actually I need some feedback on the heroic/epic map sets. How do they rate? Are they useful for sub<100 at all ?

Also What's the best maps for the following levels as far as heroic goes - does heroic cover it?
100-200
200-300
300-400 ?
I can clear heroic Rivers End on my level 78 fighter solo, so that area should be about a 40-100ish range level wise. I personally have never tried epic Tower, but it has too wide of a variety of mobs; Goes from skeletons up to a dragon so it'd probably be best for a party of 2-3 level 150-200 people. Heroic pendragon would probably be in the same boat as epic Tower, but the main monsters there are minotaurs, dragons, and balrons, but the level range would be roughly the same. Heroic Minotaur Halls and Pit is better, since it has many dragons it can be viable from 200-450 as a leveling ground. Albeit you only get 40% from a full clear at the 370-420 level range.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Flamesoffire »

Onyxt wrote:
eggmceye wrote:actually I need some feedback on the heroic/epic map sets. How do they rate? Are they useful for sub<100 at all ?

Also What's the best maps for the following levels as far as heroic goes - does heroic cover it?
100-200
200-300
300-400 ?
I can clear heroic Rivers End on my level 78 fighter solo, so that area should be about a 40-100ish range level wise. I personally have never tried epic Tower, but it has too wide of a variety of mobs; Goes from skeletons up to a dragon so it'd probably be best for a party of 2-3 level 150-200 people. Heroic pendragon would probably be in the same boat as epic Tower, but the main monsters there are minotaurs, dragons, and balrons, but the level range would be roughly the same. Heroic Minotaur Halls and Pit is better, since it has many dragons it can be viable from 200-450 as a leveling ground. Albeit you only get 40% from a full clear at the 370-420 level range.

Haha, Try 25% at best at 420 :P But yeah. Seph has it about right. Though epic mage tower is rather simple. Heroic pen, Only decent part of it is the massive balrons. If pen gets its expansion though, It can easily rival pit for exp and difficulty. But like i said, Seph has it mostly down, Sides the mage tower part. The dragon, Yeah, Takes a decent party, Liches not so much, Everything lower.. Not so much..
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by Bugbo »

If vampires come over to reg/PD you may want to have some towns in the underworld that they can bind to so they don't have to worry about daylight.
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Re: Map playability poll

Post by LordMortiferus »

eggmceye wrote:nizweideux (222) is mine and it took like 2 years to make on and off :abject:
sorry for that. doing a great map that is original, fun and atmospheric takes a lot of time and can be frustrating.
I dropped one map project because it was way to big and halted another cause after work I do not have the stamina to finish it and on the weekends I want to spent time with my fiancee and dog. Actually it is a shame since this map has scripted evil lava, lighting shooting orbs and human eating plants - ah maybe when I am back from Australia in late April, I will have more time for this.
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