Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Severian » Tue May 08, 2012 10:35 pm

Can someone please clarify if the following (extracted from the manual) are still valid?

[1] "Also, when a character is totally 'unarmed' (i.e., equipped with only unarmed type armour and using either bare fists or an unarmed type weapon), and is a grandmaster with unarmed weapons, he or she will recieve additional bonuses in defense and attack strength."

[2]"A priest is able to use maces that have been blessed just as proficiently as a fighter can use normal maces. Thus, via the blessed maces skill, a priest gains all the same abilities as a fighter would when using the mace skill." -- Someone please confirm that you can still use the secondary mace specials (i.e., Flurry, Bloodbolt) with blessed maces (assuming 100% polearms and 100% longswords).

[3] "Note that you must be wearing 'unarmoured' gear and be using an 'unarmed' weapon, or your bare hands, to cause critical hits while the target is under the influence of a quivering palm hit." Is this still true?



Also, can someone who has played with the monk class more extensively also comment on how the various grades of armour effect the usage of the various monk skills and specials please?
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Aerie » Wed May 09, 2012 1:59 am

Severian wrote:Can someone please clarify if the following (extracted from the manual) are still valid?

[1] "Also, when a character is totally 'unarmed' (i.e., equipped with only unarmed type armour and using either bare fists or an unarmed type weapon), and is a grandmaster with unarmed weapons, he or she will recieve additional bonuses in defense and attack strength."

[2]"A priest is able to use maces that have been blessed just as proficiently as a fighter can use normal maces. Thus, via the blessed maces skill, a priest gains all the same abilities as a fighter would when using the mace skill." -- Someone please confirm that you can still use the secondary mace specials (i.e., Flurry, Bloodbolt) with blessed maces (assuming 100% polearms and 100% longswords).

[3] "Note that you must be wearing 'unarmoured' gear and be using an 'unarmed' weapon, or your bare hands, to cause critical hits while the target is under the influence of a quivering palm hit." Is this still true?



Also, can someone who has played with the monk class more extensively also comment on how the various grades of armour effect the usage of the various monk skills and specials please?


@[1] - This is true for defense. If you have GM UA, and all you're wearing is unarmed gear, you do get a special bonus for defense. As for attack strength, I've never paid attention, but would be glad to test this for you in just a bit.

@[2] - This is true for a HUMAN race only, as you still have to have at least 90% in both polearms and longswords to be able to use that special with other skills. However, with other races, this isn't true, as you can't acheive the 90% in both skills. (speaking of that, that is a good idea for the ideas thread. Maybe with 100% blessed maces, you can unlock the ability to buy bloodbolt and flurry so that you may use them.

@[3] - This is true as well. With full UA (i.e. unarmed weapon and full unarmoured gear), you do have access to more and random critical attacks and it goes towards quivering palm. With using that quivering palm ability, you'll acheive more critical attacks using ONLY UA gear. It's always been like that.

and @the_random_question_at_the_end - I, personally, always use goldweave (or goldhide for boots or now ever dragonscale) for stat gear, but darkweave for defense, as the darkweave is blackrock for UA fighters. If you're talking about the tints, all the tints work just fine with UA, and if you're talking about the grade (i.e. heavy, medium, light, and UA), they still work with UA but you lose your ability to gain more defense and you'll walk a little slower. Most of your unarmed fighters these days (now that monk is it's own class) don't pay attention to the UA gear vs. Light or the other grades simply because hardly no one uses quivering palm. Mostly people use throat strike and sleeping fists which works with any grade gear.
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Severian » Wed May 09, 2012 3:20 am

Aerie wrote:
Severian wrote:Can someone please clarify if the following (extracted from the manual) are still valid?

[1] "Also, when a character is totally 'unarmed' (i.e., equipped with only unarmed type armour and using either bare fists or an unarmed type weapon), and is a grandmaster with unarmed weapons, he or she will recieve additional bonuses in defense and attack strength."

[2]"A priest is able to use maces that have been blessed just as proficiently as a fighter can use normal maces. Thus, via the blessed maces skill, a priest gains all the same abilities as a fighter would when using the mace skill." -- Someone please confirm that you can still use the secondary mace specials (i.e., Flurry, Bloodbolt) with blessed maces (assuming 100% polearms and 100% longswords).

[3] "Note that you must be wearing 'unarmoured' gear and be using an 'unarmed' weapon, or your bare hands, to cause critical hits while the target is under the influence of a quivering palm hit." Is this still true?



Also, can someone who has played with the monk class more extensively also comment on how the various grades of armour effect the usage of the various monk skills and specials please?


@[1] - This is true for defense. If you have GM UA, and all you're wearing is unarmed gear, you do get a special bonus for defense. As for attack strength, I've never paid attention, but would be glad to test this for you in just a bit.

@[2] - This is true for a HUMAN race only, as you still have to have at least 90% in both polearms and longswords to be able to use that special with other skills. However, with other races, this isn't true, as you can't acheive the 90% in both skills. (speaking of that, that is a good idea for the ideas thread. Maybe with 100% blessed maces, you can unlock the ability to buy bloodbolt and flurry so that you may use them.

@[3] - This is true as well. With full UA (i.e. unarmed weapon and full unarmoured gear), you do have access to more and random critical attacks and it goes towards quivering palm. With using that quivering palm ability, you'll acheive more critical attacks using ONLY UA gear. It's always been like that.

and @the_random_question_at_the_end - I, personally, always use goldweave (or goldhide for boots or now ever dragonscale) for stat gear, but darkweave for defense, as the darkweave is blackrock for UA fighters. If you're talking about the tints, all the tints work just fine with UA, and if you're talking about the grade (i.e. heavy, medium, light, and UA), they still work with UA but you lose your ability to gain more defense and you'll walk a little slower. Most of your unarmed fighters these days (now that monk is it's own class) don't pay attention to the UA gear vs. Light or the other grades simply because hardly no one uses quivering palm. Mostly people use throat strike and sleeping fists which works with any grade gear.


Are you absolutely sure about this? And that what you know is current?
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Aerie » Wed May 09, 2012 4:45 am

Yes'r. I am.
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby eggmceye » Wed May 09, 2012 7:40 am

I don't like the way 1) is written - it says there is extra bonus for having 100% ua - there is no extra bonus for being gm. If you are 'dressed for ua' then the attack and def formulae are different, and the numbers scale upwards in relation to your ua%. There is no bonus for having 100%ua
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Aerie » Wed May 09, 2012 7:52 am

What I meant by it was that with GM UA skill, and light/medium/heavy gear, you just look and feel like a regular fighter. But if/when you switch from light/medium/heavy gear to UA, it looks more or less like a defense bonus. Because it shoots up.


and i wasn't sure about the AS part, i never checked, but i'm glad you cleared that part up. :D
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Magrock » Wed May 09, 2012 8:44 am

Severian wrote:[1] "Also, when a character is totally 'unarmed' (i.e., equipped with only unarmed type armour and using either bare fists or an unarmed type weapon), and is a grandmaster with unarmed weapons, he or she will recieve additional bonuses in defense and attack strength."
I think the bonus is a greater chance of a critical if you are without any weapon and without anything in your left hand.
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Severian » Wed May 09, 2012 4:11 pm

Bleh ... ok ... I think i get it ... i'll update it later today
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Severian » Thu May 10, 2012 7:56 am

Severian wrote:
Aerie wrote:
Severian wrote:Can someone please clarify if the following (extracted from the manual) are still valid?

[1] "Also, when a character is totally 'unarmed' (i.e., equipped with only unarmed type armour and using either bare fists or an unarmed type weapon), and is a grandmaster with unarmed weapons, he or she will recieve additional bonuses in defense and attack strength."

[2]"A priest is able to use maces that have been blessed just as proficiently as a fighter can use normal maces. Thus, via the blessed maces skill, a priest gains all the same abilities as a fighter would when using the mace skill." -- Someone please confirm that you can still use the secondary mace specials (i.e., Flurry, Bloodbolt) with blessed maces (assuming 100% polearms and 100% longswords).

[3] "Note that you must be wearing 'unarmoured' gear and be using an 'unarmed' weapon, or your bare hands, to cause critical hits while the target is under the influence of a quivering palm hit." Is this still true?


Btw ... when i tested blessed maces ... i could not flurry or bloodbolt. I don't know if I can trust any of your information ...
Also, can someone who has played with the monk class more extensively also comment on how the various grades of armour effect the usage of the various monk skills and specials please?


@[1] - This is true for defense. If you have GM UA, and all you're wearing is unarmed gear, you do get a special bonus for defense. As for attack strength, I've never paid attention, but would be glad to test this for you in just a bit.

@[2] - This is true for a HUMAN race only, as you still have to have at least 90% in both polearms and longswords to be able to use that special with other skills. However, with other races, this isn't true, as you can't acheive the 90% in both skills. (speaking of that, that is a good idea for the ideas thread. Maybe with 100% blessed maces, you can unlock the ability to buy bloodbolt and flurry so that you may use them.

@[3] - This is true as well. With full UA (i.e. unarmed weapon and full unarmoured gear), you do have access to more and random critical attacks and it goes towards quivering palm. With using that quivering palm ability, you'll acheive more critical attacks using ONLY UA gear. It's always been like that.

and @the_random_question_at_the_end - I, personally, always use goldweave (or goldhide for boots or now ever dragonscale) for stat gear, but darkweave for defense, as the darkweave is blackrock for UA fighters. If you're talking about the tints, all the tints work just fine with UA, and if you're talking about the grade (i.e. heavy, medium, light, and UA), they still work with UA but you lose your ability to gain more defense and you'll walk a little slower. Most of your unarmed fighters these days (now that monk is it's own class) don't pay attention to the UA gear vs. Light or the other grades simply because hardly no one uses quivering palm. Mostly people use throat strike and sleeping fists which works with any grade gear.


Are you absolutely sure about this? And that what you know is current?
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby eggmceye » Thu May 10, 2012 8:22 am

Severian wrote:[3] "Note that you must be wearing 'unarmoured' gear and be using an 'unarmed' weapon, or your bare hands, to cause critical hits while the target is under the influence of a quivering palm hit." Is this still true?



It's not true, after looking at src, unless I looked at the wrong bit. If a tgt is qp'd then every hit it takes (from a player) has a 50% chance of being crit, up to a max of 3 until the qp effect wears off.

But these sort of details don't need to be in the manual - just delete the line about req ua to get qp crits.
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Severian » Thu May 10, 2012 8:59 am

eggmceye wrote:
Severian wrote:[3] "Note that you must be wearing 'unarmoured' gear and be using an 'unarmed' weapon, or your bare hands, to cause critical hits while the target is under the influence of a quivering palm hit." Is this still true?



It's not true, after looking at src, unless I looked at the wrong bit. If a tgt is qp'd then every hit it takes (from a player) has a 50% chance of being crit, up to a max of 3 until the qp effect wears off.

But these sort of details don't need to be in the manual - just delete the line about req ua to get qp crits.


alrighty
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Severian » Thu May 10, 2012 9:09 am

eggmceye wrote:I don't like the way 1) is written - it says there is extra bonus for having 100% ua - there is no extra bonus for being gm. If you are 'dressed for ua' then the attack and def formulae are different, and the numbers scale upwards in relation to your ua%. There is no bonus for having 100%ua


I changed that line to:

"Also, when a character is totally 'unarmed' (i.e., equipped with only unarmed type armour and using either bare fists or an unarmed type weapon), having a higher unarmed combat skill will result in an improvement in your ability to both attack and defend."
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby eggmceye » Thu May 10, 2012 9:59 am

Aerie wrote:Yes'r. I am.


you got all 3 answers wrong :--;: don't post again
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Aerie » Thu May 10, 2012 10:53 am

How did I get them all wrong? :--;: Explain.
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby SiNeR » Thu May 10, 2012 6:38 pm

about Monk UA skill... I noticed that wearing full UA gear increases your DEF but didnt notice increase of AS or dmg done...

I also read a lot of manual and Forums to find any information about Monk or a Mage class and all I find was Egg post about Monk Skills from about few years ago and about beta serv... I was thinking of creating some forum posts about these classes something similiar to Ultimate rogue guide but would be awesome to create a "script" or "tempalte" how it should look ike (dont know correct word sorry), I mean sth like this :
Base skills: list of skills or a link to manual page

Stat weight: for example fighters 75%str ,25%dex, int ??, Monk 50%str 50%dex, 100 int...etc Breakpoints for MR for different stages of Hunting like ( you need at least 1100 to hunt red dragons etc)

Weapons and gear: what kind of weapons should these class use what are BIS(best in slot) weapons for hunting (eg. vamp katar of leeching +3 for monk hunting, or adam katar of leeching +3 for DMG and heal with mani if you are a human ETC), maybe a list of artys and their stats, to create a BIS for every class

Races pros and cons: (what classes are good for mages, for monks etc...) for expamle bloodkins get 10% int so with 100 int you get about 83MR and + ?? dmg from spell XC or VOG

how to bind and worth to use skills: (for example how newbie mages can get XC, VOG spells, and waht are base skills for mages

lvl guide: something about where to hunt to 50lvl, where to hunt from 50 to 100 lvl, ... weapons you should use there (eg.. silver if you hunting undeads) what crafting skills you should start getting while you hunting ( for example alchemy for pots, insc. for scrolls, cooking for exp buff), how to distribute stasts... for example: You should get about 100 srt when you are mage to avoid problems with overload...

i know that for many players this may be useless but when you are NEW player or coming back player (like me) you dont know may things you should... and creating a place with usefull links to Manual and Information about classes could make Life in EUO easier to many players not only new one...
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Severian » Fri May 11, 2012 6:36 pm

A new set of questions:

[1] Can WoTs be used on leeching weapons?

[2] What effect does wearing a shield have for mages and monks? Specifically, does wearing a shield limit these classes in any way, and if so, in what way(s)?

[3] What effect does wearing heavy/medium/light armour have for mages and monks? Specifically, does wearing a heavy/medium armour pieces limited these classes in any way, and if so, in what way(s)?
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Aerie » Fri May 11, 2012 10:46 pm

Severian wrote:A new set of questions:

[1] Can WoTs be used on leeching weapons?

[2] What effect does wearing a shield have for mages and monks? Specifically, does wearing a shield limit these classes in any way, and if so, in what way(s)?

[3] What effect does wearing heavy/medium/light armour have for mages and monks? Specifically, does wearing a heavy/medium armour pieces limited these classes in any way, and if so, in what way(s)?


[1] WoTs can NOT be used on leeching weapons. When you disenchant them, they don't even have a "step down" like a regular weapon does. It goes from leech, +1, +2, +3, to plain in one shot. It won't go from +3 to +2 to +1, like a regular weapon.

[2] As for mages, NO SHEILDS AT ALL. Mages used to be able to wear sheilds and everything was fine, then fighters bitched about PVP with mages having sheilds, so if a mage wears a sheild, your casting rate goes to hell. It's about as bad as not wearing a staff in the first place. Just, not worth it. Orbs are the only "allowed" sheild-wise to be in the off hand.
As for monks, same as I posted previous. You can wear a shield, but (from my experience on PD while I was monk for a long while) QP doesn't work and you won't get the extra defence and AS that monks get with just UA on. Orbs are allowed, like mages. (...most monks use sheilds and medium/heavy gear anyway because Sleeping Fists and Throat Strike are the 2 specials most monks use to amount to anything)

[3] Mages, walking. You walk a tad bit slower beings it's heavy. No casting issues or anything. Some/most of your mages on PD (and Beth from reg) actually prefer heavy gear as you get a little more MR from it.
Monks, same as what I was talking about before. The progressive extra def/as you get from UA dissapears if you put on anything on other than UA gear. You move a little slower, because it's heavy/medium/light, but no penaltys.

@egg, if i'm wrong again, just shoot me. -.-
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby SiNeR » Sat May 12, 2012 12:53 am

Another thing I noticed is that Crystal/Crystalhide/Silk gear dont give equal MR bonuses like +MR ones, as the Manual is saying... i noticed that cystalhide boots +3 gives only 40 MR while +4 swamp boots gives 80, so what scale is now for +1 on Crystal/Crystalhide/Silk?
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Severian » Sat May 12, 2012 1:19 am

SiNeR wrote:Another thing I noticed is that Crystal/Crystalhide/Silk gear dont give equal MR bonuses like +MR ones, as the Manual is saying... i noticed that cystalhide boots +3 gives only 40 MR while +4 swamp boots gives 80, so what scale is now for +1 on Crystal/Crystalhide/Silk?


I can't find anywhere in the manual that says crystal is the same as +MR ...

But there is a slight error in what is mentioned for the crystal tint and I will fix that.
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Re: Help Bring the Manual Up-To-Date!

Postby Aerie » Sat May 12, 2012 2:02 am

crystal has a base of +10 MR points. each defense +1 adds another 10. so Silk cap +7 gives 80 mr. and cap +4 MR gives 80, where full helm +4 MR gives 80 +30 for being heavy. so 110 total for that. crystal gives MR, but it's an entire different formula.
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