about item materials (vamp, blackrock etc) - split from drops

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Stinger
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Post by Stinger »

Addled seems to be bugged. I've only seen it work when I fight sandtraps and back away to heal. It's as if being confused makes the sandtraps "willing" to attack other monsters, but since I'm hitting them they keep attacking me as long as they can.
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Post by BlackMage »

I don't really see much of a problem with vamp stuff since it got nerfed way back when. I, myself, prefer to use blackrock weapons (which is all I use when I play on either a rogue or a fighter). Maybe on a rogue the vamp is a bit unfair, but for fighters, it's not really worth it. I mean, look at it like this, most higher level fighters aren't gonna be fighting goblins and weak mobs, and the higher end mobs RARELY hit for anything under 30, so if you only get back 10% of a 40 damage strike, you're only getting 4 hp, and that isn't going to make a difference once you get zapped by that balron's VOG.

Rogues on the other hand, that can hit for like 20-30 twice every .5 seconds is another story. Especially with the randomness of getting anywhere between 10% - 40% hp back. But that's another time.

I don't think vamp stuff should be completely reworked, but instead just have a set percent of returned hp, between 5% to 10%.

On the subject of better drops; I agree. 90% of the reason why I really stopped playing (hunting) was because I could go through all of the pit and fight tons of boss balrons and boss reds and get crap like +4 vigour or +3 spears. Honestly, I got better drops off of minotaurs and blue dragons. I once got a blackrock mace +6 off a blue. Better gear from an easier mob? Yeah, I'd say it's time to redo the drop system.
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Post by LaughingCoyote »

eggmceye wrote:
Rusty76 wrote:The proof that vamp is overpowered is in the fact that it's the preferred tint of just about all fighters and rogues in the game. I would rather use a vamp + 0 weapon instead of a untinted + 9 weapon given the choice. To be fair, ebony (blackrock) is overpowered for mages for the same reason. Almost every mage in the game uses an ebony or adamantium staff. I also would rather use an ebony + 0 staff than a untinted + 9 staff. So either vamp for fighters and rogues and ebony for mages is overpowered or all the other tints are underpowered. If all the tints were equal for all classes you'd see a lot more variety in the types of weapons players use.
This might be the real problem, and a genuine can of worms.

It is because the stat dmg is calculated before + dmg (eg +9) so for high level players the + does comparatively nothing.
This is an old argument, and I agree with BK, nerfing vamp would just cause everyone to choose another "best" tint and we would have the same problem again.

What we need if we want more variety is to boost the other bonuses from other tints/weapon types so that there is a real incentive to change your weapon to suit what type of monsters you have to fight.

I use a vampy claymore +8 on LaughingCoyote, and I don't bother to swap it with a silver claymore +6 when I'm up against undead - the silver bonus simply isn't worth it, and is no way near double damage... but I think these issues have been raised before here:

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Post by Heikki »

It is because the stat dmg is calculated before + dmg (eg +9) so for high level players the + does comparatively nothing.
Mage staffs are calculated different way? It seems like high level mages got huge bonus from staff. (Maybe I am wrong?)

And one old idea:
Maybe we need allso (Rare) slayer weapons and staffs that do 25%-100% more damage against specific monsters? (For example: Minotaur slayer rondel +1)
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Post by Luxorious »

Madman wrote: And one old idea:
Maybe we need allso (Rare) slayer weapons and staffs that do 25%-100% more damage against specific monsters? (For example: Minotaur slayer rondel +1)
Yeah, this is kinda like from Diablo, and that's why I love the idea, although it would be useless if weapons were buffed against certain monsters (I actually tested 2x vamp short sword and 2x vamp rondel versus a balron and I barely noticed a difference).

Those prefixes sound a bit silly, how about something like this:

Versus hellspawn:
-Lunar
-Arcadian
-Unearthly

Versus undead:
-Concecrated
-Hallowed
-Divine

Imagine, Arcadian Claymore +8.. yeah that would kill some demons
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Post by Bk »

Umm... Make posion from veno weps calculate dmg to monsters like it does with posion on players. Would make Veno a little better with 100+ dmg hits to higher monsters, but not to over powered, by making the player 1) hit lower dmg 2) not regain health... ^.^ Works for me!
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Post by LaughingCoyote »

Zilverlight wrote:Someone PLEASE for the love of all that is good come up with a reason for players to start using untinted weapons again! As rusty has already said, people would rather use a tinted weapon of + 3 than a regular weapon of + 5 or 6. I can't think of how except scrap all tints, which would give everyone nothing to fight over and would be so much easier. You hunt, find a weapon + 6 while you were using a + 5, and you use the new one instead, rather than hunting with vampyric claymore + 4 and finding a Claymore + 7 and being like "Psht, this is crap!"

Plz, Someone put some thought to the matter!
This is easy. Make it so that all tints have a disadvantage over untinted weapons. Maybe cost of health regen, or does damage as you wear them, or something less drastic... make some sort of trade off between tinted and untinted so that going untinted is worth considering.

Don't personally like the idea, nor can I be bothered thinking of a balanced tradeoff.
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Post by Bk »

LaughingCoyote wrote:
Zilverlight wrote:Someone PLEASE for the love of all that is good come up with a reason for players to start using untinted weapons again! As rusty has already said, people would rather use a tinted weapon of + 3 than a regular weapon of + 5 or 6. I can't think of how except scrap all tints, which would give everyone nothing to fight over and would be so much easier. You hunt, find a weapon + 6 while you were using a + 5, and you use the new one instead, rather than hunting with vampyric claymore + 4 and finding a Claymore + 7 and being like "Psht, this is crap!"

Plz, Someone put some thought to the matter!
This is easy. Make it so that all tints have a disadvantage over untinted weapons. Maybe cost of health regen, or does damage as you wear them, or something less drastic... make some sort of trade off between tinted and untinted so that going untinted is worth considering.

Don't personally like the idea, nor can I be bothered thinking of a balanced tradeoff.
Or, make + slaying effect better than ANY tint, and reduce the Highest possible slaying on Tinted weps to +5 like with enchant's slaying, and if possible, instead of wiping already existed tints higher than +5, find them all, and reduce them to + 5, and if the Slaying bonus is Beefed alot after +5, then people would consider going with +6's and up... But don't have any ideas for this...
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Post by Aristarch »

Try thinking of + as of subsort of tint, not the other way around. It only describes the quality of weapon, the most important thing is what is it made of. Balancing tints isn't only about finding some fine bonuses for each one - look at silver: silverleaf staves do massive amount of damage on undead - they are a lot better than ebony in that - and still: does anyone use them often? It's a bother to change it continuously as there is no good reason to hunt specifically undead. They are usually mixed with other mobs immune to silver and aren't generally worth it. The problem is all the monsters drop virtually the same with only minor differences. You can get the same tints from goblin, dragon and balron.
Why not make vampyric weapons drop from vampires only, with their max. possible + of 2 or 3? Same with other kinds of monsters.
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Re: Tints

Post by Rufio »

Gulnar wrote: Staffs:
As I understand it, INT bonus is added before the ebony multiplier is applied. Great. That's how it should work for fighter/rogue weapons. I'm not sure what the balance between tints is like overall for mages. Is ebony overpowered?
Ebony is not overpowered. Its like fighters or rogues using blackrock but 50 dmg more. :cool:
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Post by Heikki »

Ebony is not overpowered. Its like fighters or rogues using blackrock but 50 dmg more. Cool
I think this is not true... Fighters and rogues blackrock bonus is counted different way. (Forexample I do 58+ damage with not tinted longsword and ONLY 61+ with BR longsword.... 3 damage more is not lot with str 1200 :P)

Question is:
Is Ebony staff overpowered or BR weapons under powered?
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Post by Rufio »

I think blackrock should be the same dmg as ebony. I wish my fighter was as good as my mage. :grubby:
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Post by Stinger »

Heikki wrote:Question is:
Is Ebony staff overpowered or BR weapons under powered?
I think both are true. Probably the best thing to do would be to nerf the better tints and improve the lesser tints.
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Post by Bk »

Honestly, with my ebony staff, my mage does only 80-90 dmg with XC, but with staff, I hit average b/t 100-105... only 20-25 more dmg, which isn't 50%, but still more than 25%...
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Post by Heikki »

Problem ebony staff VS br wep is:

Lvl 1 warrior with str 25 get 3 point extra damage from Br weapon.
Lvl 350 warrior with str 1200 get SAME 3 point extra damage from Br weapon.

Lvl 1 mage get 25%+ damage bonus
[example: 20p damage = 20 x 1.25(about) = 25p damage = 5p extra]

Lvl 350 mage get 25%+ damage bonus
[example: 250p damage = 250 x 1.25 (about) = 312p damage = 62p extra]

***********************************************************************************************************************************

Problem with vampire staff VS vampire weps:
Vampire staffs heal WAY too low hp back... Amout of returned hp% should be?
I counted ONLY 2 hp back from 42p damage with vapire staff.
Warriors and get about 10 point health back from 50 damage.

************************************************************************************************************************************

If there comes nerfs then both tints should be nerfed not only other.
Because:
Nerfing only BR staffs lead to situation where mages have useless +8 ebo staffs and Warriors stll have good vampy weps.

Nerfing only Vampire weps leads to situtaion where warriors/rogues have useless +8 vampy weps and mages still got good staffs.


My opinion is:
Not nerfs.. Boost for vampire staffs and Ebony weapons.
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Post by Rufio »

Heikki wrote:Problem ebony staff VS br wep is:

Lvl 1 warrior with str 25 get 3 point extra damage from Br weapon.
Lvl 350 warrior with str 1200 get SAME 3 point extra damage from Br weapon.

Lvl 1 mage get 25%+ damage bonus
[example: 20p damage = 20 x 1.25(about) = 25p damage = 5p extra]

Lvl 350 mage get 25%+ damage bonus
[example: 250p damage = 250 x 1.25 (about) = 312p damage = 62p extra]

***********************************************************************************************************************************

Problem with vampire staff VS vampire weps:
Vampire staffs heal WAY too low hp back... Amout of returned hp% should be?

I counted ONLY 2 hp back from 42p damage with vapire staff.
Warriors and get about 10 point health back from 50 damage.

************************************************************************************************************************************

If there comes nerfs then both tints should be nerfed not only other.
Because:
Nerfing only BR staffs lead to situation where mages have useless +8 ebo staffs and Warriors stll have good vampy weps.

Nerfing only Vampire weps leads to situtaion where warriors/rogues have useless +8 vampy weps and mages still got good staffs.


My opinion is:
Not nerfs.. Boost for vampire staffs and Ebony weapons.
I agree with the vamp staff remark.
I hunted with a vampyric staff this morning and i do like 30 damage less with Vampyric and Ebony.
Maybe make it like 15 or 10 damage less? They might be too crappy to use.
We should be able to value these staffs. =] it would be of great help.
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Post by Cirrus »

Heikki wrote:Problem ebony staff VS br wep is:

Lvl 1 warrior with str 25 get 3 point extra damage from Br weapon.
Lvl 350 warrior with str 1200 get SAME 3 point extra damage from Br weapon.

Lvl 1 mage get 25%+ damage bonus
[example: 20p damage = 20 x 1.25(about) = 25p damage = 5p extra]

Lvl 350 mage get 25%+ damage bonus
[example: 250p damage = 250 x 1.25 (about) = 312p damage = 62p extra]

***********************************************************************************************************************************

Problem with vampire staff VS vampire weps:
Vampire staffs heal WAY too low hp back... Amout of returned hp% should be?
I counted ONLY 2 hp back from 42p damage with vapire staff.
Warriors and get about 10 point health back from 50 damage.

************************************************************************************************************************************

If there comes nerfs then both tints should be nerfed not only other.
Because:
Nerfing only BR staffs lead to situation where mages have useless +8 ebo staffs and Warriors stll have good vampy weps.

Nerfing only Vampire weps leads to situtaion where warriors/rogues have useless +8 vampy weps and mages still got good staffs.


My opinion is:
Not nerfs.. Boost for vampire staffs and Ebony weapons.
I agree with both of these ideas. Doing considerably more damage with blackrock weapons would be great, and right now(I think) vampyric staves only return 5% of the damage done.
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Post by Stinger »

Egg wrote:I'd like to see vamp scrapped or reworked to some other non hp restoring effect
Maybe it's pointless to post this since everyone wants to keep vamyric weapons, but how about spiked weapons, which have a chance of piercing defense? Spiked staves would have a chance of piercing magic resistance.
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Post by Bk »

Stinger wrote:
Egg wrote:I'd like to see vamp scrapped or reworked to some other non hp restoring effect
Maybe it's pointless to post this since everyone wants to keep vamyric weapons, but how about spiked weapons, which have a chance of piercing defense? Spiked staves would have a chance of piercing magic resistance.

1. Its never pointless for egg to post, even if EVERYone disagrees with him. X-D

2. Spikes i would see as just an easy way for lower lvls to take harder monsters, simply put, you can just lower the def of everything to make it easier for lower lvls to hit them. They need to work their way up to lvl 63 (I think) to use an XJ wep, or just try a Diamond/Addy wep to pass def...
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Post by Eclips »

Just because you can do normal damage to a monster doesn't mean you can take it. Even if you gave a noob a weapon that will pierce a dragons defense every time, they couldn't beat it and 1 to 2 attacks later they would be dead.
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