Poll: should enchanting be returned to the way it was?

Revan · Post by **Revan** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:28 pm

Sorry to bring this thread back Egg... and everybody else who was happy to see it die.

But, Heikki, I was wondering which in-game economy you were talking about. Do you mean the almost completely stagnant economy where the older players horde their enchants without thought to ever sell them? Because, as a newish player (about a year now), it is pretty much impossible for me to get ahold of a vampy enchant or high defense gear. It might be different if older player would actually sell their enchants, but they won't. Enchants are strictly trade-only items, but how are new players supposed to trade for the items? If we find something that would make a fair trade for an enhant, we get stuck making the choice between the two. Do I want addy field plate +6 defense or a vampy claymore xj? It sucks having to make that choice, and the "New-player population" suffers for it. And that is a hypothetical situation, becuase there is no way in hell that someone will find an addy field plate of +6 defense.

The economy that you defend doesn't exist...

Revan · Post by **Revan** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:31 pm

In case you can't figure it out, my vote is yes. But! Definately put restrictions.

Heikki · Post by **Heikki** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:50 pm

I love easter, time of resurection!!!!
Resurection for this topic and for Jesus!!!!!

where the older players horde their enchants without thought to ever sell them?

Make GOOD offer and I sell all my enchants for ya

Rusty76 · Post by **Rusty76** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:11 pm

Heikki wrote:Make GOOD offer and I sell all my enchants for ya

That's the problem, new players dont have anything to make a GOOD offer with.

Dudle · Post by **Dudle** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:00 am

I thought the point of nerfing enchanting was so people couldnt just go out and get uber-gear +whatever for thier class...and current level, as this was the case with enchanting.

It had to happen - and at the time there were not alot of newbs...at least none that mattered.

The only thing I think people really miss is the weapons aspect of enchanting - along with crafting tinted weapons.

(hard to find tinted enchanted weapons - that are useful)

Sure its nice to get items with over +15 to stats/vig - but it was not nessasary when you could get the tint you wanted up to +15.

I am for keeping things the way they are...
Dudle

Revan · Post by **Revan** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:26 am

I am all for keeping things the way they are if there is an item wipe.

DrBiggie · Post by **DrBiggie** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:10 am

I am all for keeping things the way they are if there is an item wipe.

Because you've played for 1 year while people who've played for 4 or almost 5 have awesome stuff? There's a reason Heikki has awesome gear: he's level 3XX. Being jealous of other people's gear is a pretty selfish reason to want an item wipe. It's not a competition that needs a level playing field. Just go out there, have fun, and eventually you'll find some awesome items.

jumpstart · Post by **jumpstart** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:18 am

I think it should go back. But with restrictions.

nuff said.

Revan · Post by **Revan** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:51 am

Agreed Biggie, you old hag. I rebuke my previous statement. But, in my defense, I could play until I was level 3XX and, under the current system, I would never have the kind of equipment that Heikki has.

---flame on--- Besides Mr. Full-suit-of-studded-leather-armor-defense +6-and-double-vampy-rondel-of-XJ, you don't have a clue what its like to not have good gear, with the possible prospect of never finding good gear ---flame off----

My vote is still yes, with major restrictions

Onyxt · Post by **Onyxt** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:27 pm

Or you people can just quit whining and accept the way enchanting is?

Revan · Post by **Revan** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:43 pm

Onyxt wrote:Or you people can just quit whining and accept the way enchanting is?

How about making a productive post, instead of trying to start a flame war.

DrBiggie · Post by **DrBiggie** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:24 pm

Besides Mr. Full-suit-of-studded-leather-armor-defense +6-and-double-vampy-rondel-of-XJ, you don't have a clue what its like to not have good gear, with the possible prospect of never finding good gear

And just so nobody thinks I'm an evil rich guy trying to keep the rich rich and the poor poor (so to speak):

About a year ago, I wrote:I'm for a full item wipe. Not so much for the player wipe, but you wouldn't hear me complain about that either.

To the people who think an item wipe would just start the cycle over again:

(Keep in mind that I have no idea how hard this would be to code)

What if repair scrolls were removed and only smiths could repair armor and weapons? Then make it so that every time an item is repaired, it's max durability drops 1 point. If at any time the durability hits 0, the item is permanently broken. If you coupled this with the extra damage on different monsters (swords doing less damage to golems, and losing more durability to them) a careless player could lose a weapon pretty easily, and even the most careful would have to get another eventually.

Back in those days, like Dudle said above, there weren't very many new players. Almost everyone who played had almost everything they wanted. Drops were near-to-useless and hunting was kind of boring because there wasn't really anything to look for. Now with a lot of new people playing, there isn't really a problem with too many weapons, and it's exciting again when you see a monster drop something.

I just don't think there should be one just because people without a lot of good gear are sore at the people with good gear.

Grodst · Post by **Grodst** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:54 pm

bah, shush you guys. Been too busy travelling and such to play for 2 weeks, don't like seeing this stale old argument back again.

Ench was not all that good. Too much gear made, no excitement from hunting. Used to be we were driven to hunt by the hope of finding a vamp sword above 4! Now...due in large part to Rush(me!) then the other GM Enchanters, oodles of Omnipotent weapons abound.

Best solution is for everyone to play the game the way it is now. Enjoy the fact that EUO is still the best damned game online! Honest founder runs it and still dedicates too much of his life to our happiness.

Eidolon · Post by **Eidolon** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:04 pm

i'd venture to make the argument that tinted weapons and gear that i would actually put other than in my shit pile are wayyyyy too scarce.

like 15 levels of hunting (divied between my 2 close to level 200 chars) and the best thing i found was an addled hoe +6 and something +16int.

doesnt exactly make me fond of hunting. pretty much a waste of my time.

Dudle · Post by **Dudle** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:00 pm

Honestly if the transfer wands worked on all tinted weapons and could also switch enchants - this thread wouldnt be reopened like this.

Transfer wands would be worth alot, but there would probably be enough vampy ss XJ's & vampy ss AEP's for EVERYONE, and adamantium shill's + 8 too!

I still dont want enchanting back...even if it means i get an addy shill + 8.

Possibly make drops more useful by having tints associated with weapon types...that go well together. Take feedback from players about weapon types...

Dudle

P.S. doesnt mean i wouldnt get an addy shill + 8 if enchanting came back...

Mackey · Post by **Mackey** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:02 am

Now, instead of everyone having a chance to get Uber weps and gear, the n00bs and some of the not so n00b are at a great disadvantage.

Think of weapons and gear as money. The way enchanting was, any player could go to the printer and load up with money. This caused an inflation of awesome items, lowering their value.

Now, the "money printers" are pretty much shut off, making a sort of "upper class" and "lower class" situation, with little or no room for the lower class to move up.

I'd like to see a return of the old enchanting, with a bunch of nerfs on player-enchanted stuff. Faster wear, lower casting chance on spell enchanted weps, etc. Also make it A LOT harder than it was to make an enchant stick.

This way, there could still be a balance between crafting and hunting, because the payout of enchanting against its risk wouldn't be too smart.

There will always be people wanting to hunt. I remember the days of the uber weps, and we still hunted. Because a pair of vampy xj/aep rondels aren't shit without some AS to back em up.

Just something to think about. I'm fairly happy with what's goin on now. A lot better than anything I could ever do, and I hope Egg realises how much we all love this game he made.

Eidolon · Post by **Eidolon** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:28 pm

i think all this could be fixed by balancing out drops better.

i've killed so many boss shadow lords/mages/warriors, boss balrons, boss dragons and all I find anymore is shit. literal shit. ring +6 vig from a balron. are you kidding me? and whats worse, is thats what i normally get from these types of bosses.

if there was actually a chance to find 20+ stat items again (i mean more of a chance than 1/10000000), that would dissolve the problem of the upper and lower class thing. think abt it, all the good gear that higher level players have is because of finding great loot before enchanting was put in, that we could customize to exactly what we want. the drop rates before enchanting was ever thought of was fucking perfect. you'd find a +8 here or there. find a +20 and up every few levels. i mean.. it kept you playing because there was actually a CHANCE to find something worth hunting for.

i think the only solution would be to do a complete item wipe/level wipe/gold wipe. the only thing that should be kept is crafting skills because honestly, people worked hard to get those up there and i think the vets who just bought all their crafting skills are pretty much gone. keep enchanting exactly how it is now, and COMPLETELY rethink loot dropping and rates.

everything is pretty much balanced and good as of now. egg's done a good job of that. too bad no one has the balls to realize what euo really needs is a clean slate.

Dudle · Post by **Dudle** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:13 pm

People trading and finding the gear they have is no less important than the crafting skills they posses- and it wasnt drops before that made all the good gear - there were players that could craft anything be it weapons or armour - and with the help of enchanters they would transfer the + to whatever tinted equipment they had made/bought - from items they found or bought - and this is what flooded the market with high end gear. I remember shops having multiple sets of uber gear that were all crafted.

If you were to do a wipe - I'd say wipe everything. Obviously I would not want a wipe. Just saying that if your going to get rid of stuff make it everything - screw the skills too. Absolutely nothing left. No favorites.

Dudle

EDIT : found a warriorband and noble foil in chests...and about a month ago found a BR horned helm of int +19...more reecently found a ash crossbow KXQ...so i dont think drops are too bad - but definately need reworking and a loot system for parties...

DrBiggie · Post by **DrBiggie** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:51 am

Yeah people worked just as hard for levels as other people worked for crafting skills. It wouldn't make sense to wipe one half of the slate and not the other.

But honestly, I doubt any wipe will happen, so this is all probably pointless.

Revan · Post by **Revan** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:37 am

Despite my previous comment about an item wipe, I really don't think it would be fair for the older players for this to happen. I'm not looking to lower the power of the old guys, so to speak. I just want it to be possible for newer players to one day be equal. A complete item/level wipe would be terrible for some players, just ask Heikki

swut.net forums

Poll: should enchanting be returned to the way it was?

enchanting un-nerf? ie no soulbinding