druid thread

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Re: druid thread

Postby Azalynn » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:38 am

Patiently waiting for druid release. ;)
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Re: druid thread

Postby kyloth » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:53 am

soooo, maybe Raven form,
basics are vampiric and act like a silver weapon,
negative -8%HP maximum +8%mana
my thoughts on stats is 15%str / 35%dex / 50%int.
has nightvision +3.
can cast necromancer hexblade at mana cost.
has single target heal for self or other. and/or a vampiric spell as a ranged spell.
can travel on land walking, flying on water like a raft.
gets hungry very fast..
cannot slam chests or pick locks.
bonus scaling per level. MR for first 45 seconds after transform.
can eat corpses like werewolf, but can also eat fruits and veggies.

***UPDATE***
weak to ranged attacks
gains bonus +15% of total current MR when below 25% hp.
transform MR bonus only lasts 15 seconds instead of 45
learns a portion but not all of necromancy spells, and a portion but not all of the priest spells.
player picks one of the hexblades, and only gets one permanent upon choice.
staffs, wands,maces and foils proc while in raven form.
bonus +20%mana regen
bonus hide skill
is not slowed or blinded by forest tiles, flies over poison tiles, unless underground

***another idea*** fuck off a buncha suggestions from the update,
ravens dont get weapon proc.
no necro or priest spells, but keep the hexblades thing
. when you get crow/raven form you choose to learn one hexblade and it pretty much is your special move. learns spells about decay,
Flesh Eating Mold, A.O.E. and D.O.T. spell, like 40 seconds with dmg every 5 or something. fires in a ring, all enemies in touch range. gains bonus damage based on int.


maybe a physical spell,
scavenger strike: critical bonus, accuracy bonus, deals a small amount of magic damage and an amount of physical equal to the dex/str.

the thought process is that druids handle all of nature so they should have animal forms and natural magic, but like, the magic should be about the life and the death in nature. also why croc and shark. pick one and build their jobs together.

why not the cliche druid into bear?
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Re: druid thread

Postby eggmceye » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:18 pm

I'm at the point now of playtesting a druid. Not sure if my standards are too high thesedays but I feel the result is a bit underwhelming.

choosing a poly gives
- access to a ability dependent on the the poly shape (eg hydra gives a lightning bolt in direction of attack)
- sometimes a stat re-arrangement

The short version is I think the polymorph system is a bit of a drag to use, at least in terms of dungeon grinding. Just to spoil it, these are the polys and their individual abilities:
1) croc (fighter stats + 'thunderwave' which pushes enemies backwards, except the one you actually hit)
2) hydra (mage stats + 'directional lightning' - an OG that casts in a line in one of the 8 directions
3) wisp (teleport)
4) rabbit (fast travel)
5) shark (water travel)
experimental/unsure
6) mothra (IZH)
7) zorn (quake + mountainwalk)

other combat druid spells:
i) thorn whip (which is ok)
ii) entangle (ranged aep)
iii) kill clone (not spoiling the effect)

mostly have been playing the hydra. It's servicable I think : just run around thornwhipping and lightning bolting guys when they line up like ducks. bit squishy due to the stat rearrangement, but I haven't tried late game stats yet. the bolt is new and fun and good, but probably op, definitely op vs grindy fighter croc

croc: pretty boring. It does have access to wallop, and generic fighter special (which is nothing except bit more dmg). The thunderwave, while new and potentially interesting, seems to have limited use. Say you are near 3 or so mobs and you hit one - the mobs adjacent to the target get pushed back. I guess the idea is to make it easier at fighting one at a time. I wouldn't be surprised if croc would be better if had a built in flurry or something: this is kinda the opposite

wisp is useful for zipping around a dungeon, in and out of rooms. but like most polys, if you want to use their ability, eg teleport, you have to cast twice: once to get into wisp form, and 2nd time to actually teleport. so for a utility it's a drag: ie having to cast twice. You wouldn't stay in wisp form to fight (unless it got some fighting skill). and having to cast twice makes the teleport NOT an escape mechanism.

rabbit & shark are fine as strictly utilities

mothra: good idea allowing IZH but you miss out on the bolt, so it's only IZH, whip and entangle, so not as good or fun.
zorn: similarly, quake but no bolt. gives mountainwalk tho so a good utility.

another conceptual question might be: why have a fighter mode and a mage mode? I can see the point in wow where you have a role in a party. but here, not so sure. I guess for variety. but if one (hydra) is going to get you xp faster than the other (croc) then why would you play the other? hmmmm

so that's the sum of it. I think they might be good on ng or multiclassed.
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Re: druid thread

Postby eggmceye » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:27 pm

Tink wrote:I feel like Druids will end up like Necromancers. There will be one clear way to play them without being gimped.


this is kinda what I feel now about the croc mode. so either make it as good as hydra to use either in terms of xp gain or some other magical reason
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Re: druid thread

Postby Eclips » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:43 am

Maybe offer Crocs something like clamp/Drag instead. You clamp onto an enemy and can drag it around. Neither of you can attack or use abilities for the duration, but who ever you used it on takes DOT.
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Re: druid thread

Postby Kynt » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:21 am

Croc form could be focused in 1v1 combat (i.e. against bosses/tanks) while hydra is more focused in whittling groups of mobs down.
Croc could have a bite skill that applies a stack of bleeding. The more stacks a monster has the more DOT it will take. These wouldn't last long, requiring you to stay in croc form to reliably keep applying them.
Now these stacks could be used in different ways: (only one of these)
-Increase crit chance against bleeding monsters. Higher the stacks, higher the chance.
-Have a second special bite skill that inflicts more damage the more stacks of bleeding a monster has (this would have a cooldown).
-Have certain debuffs apply to the monster when reaching X stacks, e.g. 3 stacks -> slow, 6 stacks -> can't heal, 8 stacks -> stun

The idea is to come closer to the hydra in clearing speed by quickly killing mobs 1v1 while providing a better boss fighting potential (safer too since hydra is squishier).
Just throwing some ideas.
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Re: druid thread

Postby eggmceye » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:55 am

that is not a bad overall approach:
hydra for clearing
croc for tough fights/bosses
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Re: druid thread

Postby Rumper » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:56 am

As someone said before me, (I can't find the post :/)
Let switching forms have an active effect when being transformed into. As it will promote polymorhping constantly.
That way a couple other forms would become more than just utility. While we're at it, each form should have atleast 1 negative aspect. I'm thinking about wisps randomly teleporting, crocs more prone to ice damage and being frozen, hydra's move more slowly the more hurt they are, but regen and very prone to burns and fire damage while regening, rabbits get hungry really fast, sharks randomly loose teeth, so decrease AS at random intervals till all teeth have fallen, mothras get pushed back on every attack, zorns eat your gold.
To make up for these shortcomings, an active on transform would be epic. Like huge splash damage shark, turn swamp hydras, scary croc, ultrafast rabbit, dizzy wisparmour, rooting zorn and lullaby mothra!
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Re: druid thread

Postby Tink » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:21 am

No negatives please, that makes the class so much more unappealing.

The idea of jumping into croc when a hybrid or 2x2 pops up is a cool idea.

I'm guessing the same gear loadouts for both croc and hydra? I know the stats change depending on form.

I still feel like croc could just have a passive wallop, maybe lower damage, but have a chance to apply bleed? Passive barbed attack would be decent class fantasy, since you're using claws/teeth. That might be OP, just a random thought. (think swipe)

Mothra seems a bit lack luster.. Maybe add more combo(ish) spells? Something like monks from D3, pull enemy mobs to you in a group, and put them to sleep etc etc. I feel like the sleep wind or w/e is pretty cool, just need to follow it up with something to make it more interesting. Unless you get into something like oldschool WoW warriors (stance dancing). Pop into Mothra, sleep a bunch of mobs, then go to hydra and zap them down? But the issue with that is.. wouldn't it be more efficient to just be a mage? LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON.
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Re: druid thread

Postby kyloth » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:03 am

Croc
basics are barbed
eats corpses like werewolf
you could give the croc some kind of crowd control ability. so he is good at pushing back targets right?
let crocs cast a drag ability,
some kind of stun or paralyze, or just let them cast entangle.
give him a different style of push ability. like a single target push.
crocs take reduced effect from bashing a trapped chest.
crocs could play the part in the party that controls monster movement, maybe cast a spell that turns a four square line into swamp marsh, causing damage and slowing anyone who walks on it. like poison tiles, or something.
crocs could do the heavy physical, and they could be good 1v1 boss fight tanks or good for solo grind, but in a party, having crowd control definitely helps. you can use the croc, if he can push pull drag and slow, to help allies escape, or to corral monsters towards the tank, so you can fight them 1 v 1 without your team getting hurt.
give the croc the ability to swim

Hydra
you said the hydra was squishy but useful in fighting monster groups, the int dmg is sufficient and so far is the best one. maybe a good incentive to change forms out of hydra would be mana decay, like a timer. after 15 seconds from entering hydra form, your mana starts to slowly drain. hydra transform effect is to restore its mana.
keep the hydra squishy, makes a damage dealer, but a glass cannon knows its place in a party. behind the tank, next to the healer. which brings me to my next point.

Wisp.
is teleport needs to happen on first cast. turning into the wisp teleports you randomly onscreen.
wisps can move across water.
give the wisp healing spells. make the wisp the team support. buffs and invis spell and healing. make it fast.

ditch the shark and the rabbit. split their abilities and give them to the croc and the wisp.
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Re: druid thread

Postby eggmceye » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:35 am

good posts by some good druid enthusiasts :aus:
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Re: druid thread

Postby speed » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:04 am

eggmceye wrote:that is not a bad overall approach:
hydra for clearing
croc for tough fights/bosses

Hmm... from what I can tell, this sounds pretty similar to my current build as a mage-monk; I use VOG, IFH, etc. for normal stuff, and barb/addy monk wep for bosses. The play-style definitely works well, and for me is much more interesting than pure-mage/melee.

I do have a few questions, though they may have already been answered (since I've only skimmed over this thread)
- Do croc attacks count as unarmed? If so, how will this interact with monks?
- Crocs + tanking stance? (probably op)
- Would all forms be able to equip weapons/shields/etc., considering they don't have 'hands'?
- Would the different forms have different base movement speeds?
- Should crocs be better off with med/heavy armor, while hydras have light/unarmored?
- Should there be different sprites for crocs/hydras/etc. to differentiate and customize? The sprites can possibly be dyeable

Few suggestions:
- Maybe have the forms require different loadouts as a handicap/feature, since it would require people to have multiple sets of gear for different purposes; currently, we all just stick with just one set for our characters.
- Crocs having barb as a base effect seems a bit OP, unless crocs are weaponless (which is a terrible idea imo)
- Wisp tp would be useless in blink-free zones, and either op or annoying on normal maps. I would suggest extremely low defense, but otherwise would agree with kyloth that it should focus on buffs and the like
- Hydras should be weaker than mages
-Speed(COG) = [Grandmaster Stafffighter idk...]
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Re: druid thread

Postby Comet » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:58 pm

Some random thoughts:

-I don't think 'caster forms' respecing int is a good idea, because then a druid's stats wouldn't matter. It would also mean a fighter could dual class into druid and reap all the benefits of say, hydra form.

-Since respecing into str also means less MR, and druids don't wear heavy armor, I think there should be some way to mitigate MR loss going into croc form at mid levels. That will make transitioning into hunting daemons/dragons much smoother.

-Instead of wisp form randomly teleporting you, how about going into wisp form turns you to a wisp and also provides an invisibility effect?

-It seems like once you get croc and hydra form it's just downhill from there. Also, OG is a 5th circle spell, so getting it so soon might be problematic.
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Re: druid thread

Postby kyloth » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:05 am

Comet wrote:Some random thoughts:

-I don't think 'caster forms' respecing int is a good idea, because then a druid's stats wouldn't matter. It would also mean a fighter could dual class into druid and reap all the benefits of say, hydra form. .



I agree and disagree here. my agreement is that a fighter druid would be ridiculously OP. my disagreement lies in the wereworlf. i play a rogue and re-mort necromancer on pd, something i do for fun. i almost always go out of ym way to get the lycanthropy disease jsut so i can have a boost to str and MR when i transform while keeping my int/dex when im human(troll) i think that is the point of polymorphing. i like the idea of being able to make a 100%druid 75% mage and turning into a mini-tank when i hit croc form even though im balanced at 15%str 15%dex and 70%int.

couple other nuggets of ideas. i think having the wisp fly everywhere, (being un effected by tiles, land water poison, etc) makes blinking on transformation the best way to handle it. the idea of going invis on transform could be good, but my problem is, if you go invis, you can be turned visible again if you are suffering DOT, or if you are on a damaging tile like lava, some monsters have infravision, and while in no blink zones, invis is the better option. i think maybe to settle a dispute, you should give them both. tele random on transform, and turn invis. truly a utility to extract yourself from a fight.
i still stand by what i said earlier. ditch the shark and the rabbit, divy the abilities between the other forms. make it so that druid in human form are kinda useless form anything but spell casting, crocs are tanky, wisps are flighty healy supporty and hydras are squishy but powerful in damage. maybe human form can be designed to pick any two of the three stats. like you could have a druid who is high dex and int, and works of magic and crits, or a str dex, who ignores magic and mostly plays like a fighter. or a str int fighter. slow as hell with no dodge but hits hard and casts hard. im just spitballing.
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Re: druid thread

Postby kyloth » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:08 am

and quick question, can druids catch lycanthropy or become vampires. if so, can they control the transofrmation in werewolf, without doing the quest, because they already know how to control transforms, or do they still have to go get the wolfsbane to choose when to transform,

second question, will there be places or events that force your druid to be in a form, like full moons for werewolf. like say i enter a certain dungeon, im stuck being the hydra through that dungeon, or a druid specific quests where i HAVE to be a wisp to complete it. that kinda thing
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Re: druid thread

Postby Keighn » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:06 am

Rick and morty season 3 at walmart now? Or do I have to amazon buy it?
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Re: druid thread

Postby Azalynn » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:53 am

Comet wrote:-I don't think 'caster forms' respecing int is a good idea, because then a druid's stats wouldn't matter. It would also mean a fighter could dual class into druid and reap all the benefits of say, hydra form.

As one of the best geared fighters in the game, i can tell you right now that this would make absolutely no difference to a fighter. I have cleave, wallop, and flurry as a fighter with 5k mr and 8k hp. There is no better setup for fighting even epic mobs on ToLS. As a high end fighter, just like a mage, you pull a shitton of stuff to one area and wallop it all down. I dont necessarily think this is game changing in the least for fighters. ;)

TLDR; Fighters have great aoe clear and the best boss 1v1 in the game currently and thats not going to change with druids.
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Re: druid thread

Postby eggmceye » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:42 pm

well I am glad wallop amused someone
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Re: druid thread

Postby Omnidescent » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:03 am

How come nobody mentioned a treant form? I guess treant suits the healing aspect of Druid just fine.

Crocs can swim, wisps can hover, hydras can swim, so there's no reason to make a shark form.

rabbit form... meh crocs are very fast already

Ditch the shark and rabbit form, like Kyloth said.

Croc: fast attack speed, eating humanoid corpses buffs them, bleed on basic hits. STR and DEX based

Abilities: Flurry, cleave (maybe not), tail spin (the croc spins and knocks down the mobs around him stunning them and/or knocking them back)

Tail lash: you lash with your tail at a single target, dealing heavy damage.

Hydra: Eh, it's a caster so... caster stuff? this part seems pretty much obvious. INT and a lil bit of DEX

Treant: No movement reduction when moving on forest tiles and the like, basic hits have a chance to corrode the armour of the target, faster HP regen rate when standing on forest tiles. STR, DEX and INT

Abilities: VInes/Roots/Whatever you call it: entangle the target and deal medium to heavy damage over time.

Name this one: when near a tree, you can absorb it to heal you.

Thorns: shed your thorns, ignoring and reflecting a % of the damage you receive, when the total damage you receive with this active reaches 30% of your hp, your thorns burst and hit the surrounding mobs, 4x4 attack.

Bunch of buffs

General druid abilities:

Barkskin: You toughen your skin, increasing your MR and DEF.

Ability to hide while on forest tiles

BONUS: Add a new style of weapons for druids, magical whips, because why not, also, magical whip skills would be great. Necros came with hexblades, druids come with whips, you only live once.

I don't know what the stat distribution of whips should be, but, since druids are casters, fighters, and mini rogues, it should be, say, 45% DEX, 35% STR, 20% INT (because they're supposed to be "magical")

Alright, I just spewed some random ideas, however, the treant form sounds like a good idea (don't mind the random offensive abilities I posted) because you can be a fighter, a mage and a rogue (wisp) so why not give it a bunch of heals? Ah, you get the point, only posted this to include the treant part

Again, ditch the shark and rabbit form.

Didn't post this in a stable state of mind, don't mind some parts.

EDIT: When are you going to release druids for testing on Alpha?
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Re: druid thread

Postby Rumper » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:38 am

A possible compromis about stats respec would be to integrate the current stats in the stats respec. For instance, make only 3/4th of all stats respec. So say I have 1000 stats with 500 str, 400 dex and 100 int. Polymorphing into a hydra would get you 'mage' stats, which I assume is 10 str, 10 dex, 80 int ratio. So in a pure respec I would get 100 str, 100 dex and 800 int. But by only respeccing a partial amount. In my suggestion 75% then we would get something like. 200 (0,25*500+0,10*750) str, 175 (0,25*400+0,10*750) dex and 625 (0,25*100+0,8*750) int.
This suggestion is just an example and if possible adjust as you see fit.
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