Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills.

Moderator: EUO Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

well at least the server hasn't crashed !
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

1[WoWz] wrote:
Eclips wrote:I haven't been using summons, because I can't remember what the rule is for summons and XP. Last I remember they were an XP sink. However, I cannot survive solo partying without them in areas that I could solo as a mage.
IIRC, if a summon kills a monster, you only get like 10% of the exp. It could have been changed though. IMO it should be closer to 90%.
Necros get 50% from summons, everyone else gets 10%
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

Eclips wrote:-If only two spells scale on INT, you're driving people to build more STR/DEX than seems thematically unreasonable.
The stat build should be sorted out soon: currently it is totally split between INT for those two spells, and STR/DEX for hexblades and hp and speed. Maybe this is ok? But definitely, aoeBones+explosion need to scale with INT ... both have been a bit problematic sofar
Eclips wrote:-Because of summons stealing XP, and cluttering the screen, they are considered useless to all classes. Pets are much more effective and people still bitch if you bring them along in a party hunt.
Yeh maybe less summons that are more powerful. Necro summons give 50% to the caster (and the party): could crank that higher too
Eclips wrote:- Since Giblets, corpse explosion and hail of bones are non scaling, they are too good at early levels and useless at later levels.
very good observation
Eclips wrote:- Summons are the only form of survival that necros currently have, and they are useless in the middle of a battle. You can't summon quick enough to achieve mobs strong enough to survive one blow.
I think the bone invis is a good idea - a lot of gaps can be filled via bonecrafting
Eclips wrote:- Because they will be more difficult to play, and don't have the utility of mages, there should be some sort of payout (More Damage, different types of utility)
- more utility from bones
- I'm going to roll one on weekly and see how difficult they are. be cool to make them less difficult some how, which sounds like an interface thing
Eclips wrote:-I would make hexblades a little easier to GM since good Necro game play will keep you from attacking with them as often as other melee classes.
yeh maybe, even on PD I find all the weapon skills dreadfully slow to grind up - having said that, and I've been thinking it for ages, maybe in the year 2015 we could do with a bit less grinding ...

Eclips
egg has really fucked this game up :(
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:06 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Would it be possible to Scale the kryss and Rondel hexes and the LS and Scythes differently? 25 str 75 dex on rondel/kryss would mitigate the weird amount of health necros have.

Do summons only steal XP if they are dealing the killing blow? Honestly I never understood why they absorb any of the xp. They don't get any benefit from it like pets do (lvls), and by the time you can get any damage dealing ones, they aren't useful. I wouldn't make summons a priority when you work on necros, especially if you're still introducing undead pets, but maybe after you can look at the system as a whole?

I like the idea of you filling a lot of gaps with bonecrafting. Adds a further change from mages.

I don't think their difficulty is out of control, but really necros are the biggest examples of doing combos in the game. Only other I can think of is trying to pull off a sleep + XC. Necros are attacking, while at least casting giblets and corpse explosion, but I definitely see other spells being thrown in the mix.

In terms of utility they definitely need some sort of escape or something defensive along those lines. Maybe instead of the invisibility wand, something that cuts your threat level, or displaces your threat level (IE shadow Clone). Would be something different from the norm, but still fill that gap.

Maybe also something like Animated Arm or Baby Corpser that can slow down movement speed and let you avoid physical attacks easier.

Tome of Human Flesh - crafted from corpses and other materials- acts a an offhand item.

Potential other ingredients to add variety:
-Vampire Heart
-Crystalized Lich Soul
User avatar
Mackey
Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills.
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:18 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, US
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Mackey »

eggmceye wrote:well at least the server hasn't crashed !
We need a counter on the main page; something to the tune of "(x) hours since last major technical failure!"
Eclips
egg has really fucked this game up :(
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:06 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Any chance we can get a preview of what you have planned for bone crafting?
Qwantom
Kodiak has probably banned me by now.
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:56 am
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Qwantom »

That they are, and i'm very happy. I noticed a bug that you might wanna look into flame blast and hail of bones can target friendlies, so, go on the other side of a wall and kill stuff, they try to find the caster, who is impossible for them to get to. i won't do it unless you deem appropriate again.
Qwantom
Kodiak has probably banned me by now.
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:56 am
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Qwantom »

oh, and the npc that you summon to cast hail of bones, cant be moved through if you have truesight
User avatar
Ranko
I'll be going back to Tibia next week.
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:37 am
Location: The Other Side Of The Screen

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Ranko »

eggmceye wrote:Necros get 50% from summons, everyone else gets 10%
What happens if you have mixed levels? If you have both necromancer and priest skills, for example, will sword golem give you 50% of the xp? Or will necromancer summons give reduced xp? Or will they each give the xp that you'd normally get with them, i.e., necro summons give 50% xp, while the sword golem will eat 90% of your xp?
"What do you think is going on?"
"Some horrible Wagnerian thing, full of blood, thunder, and death for us all."
"Oh, the usual."
"Exactly."
-- Roger Zelazny, Cutting A Cord (paraphrased)
User avatar
Stretchy
Kodiak has probably banned me by now.
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:52 am
Location: B'ham, AL

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Stretchy »

Egg, you noted that Hexblades are slightly faster than their counterparts. Is this true despite their attack speed reading the same value for both weapons?
Politicians are old and have bad karma/STDs.
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

Stretchy wrote:Egg, you noted that Hexblades are slightly faster than their counterparts. Is this true despite their attack speed reading the same value for both weapons?
There are two aspects to weapon speed (it should be thought of as delay actually!)
i) 1st is the base Delay (in ms) of the entire weapon skillset, eg longswords or hexblades or ranged - that is fixed for entire set and can be found in dat/common.cfg
ii) then each weapon has a delay modifier that is in dat/weapons.txt : this is the number you see in your stats window: and is multiplied to each weapon to work out actual delay. What you see in the window SHOULD be the product of these two numbers, including copper matieral delay reduction - tho this is something I've never really thought about!

The longsword vs athame: they both have 2.2 delay multiplier which is what you refer to. But overall, the hexblade base delay is 275ms compared to longswords which is 275. But what I said is also a red herring: because base delay of shortswords is 240 - so indeed a stilletto actually works out to be slower than a rondel
Ranko wrote:
eggmceye wrote:Necros get 50% from summons, everyone else gets 10%
What happens if you have mixed levels? If you have both necromancer and priest skills, for example, will sword golem give you 50% of the xp? Or will necromancer summons give reduced xp? Or will they each give the xp that you'd normally get with them, i.e., necro summons give 50% xp, while the sword golem will eat 90% of your xp?
necro summons give 50% xp when you have 100% in necromancy, and that is scaled down proportionately towards the default 10% as your necromancy decreases: eg 50% necro would bring your xp bonus from 10% to 10+50*0.5=35%xp bonus
Eclips wrote:Any chance we can get a preview of what you have planned for bone crafting?
I don't have any ideas yet beyond what has been posted - will pull my finger out soon I hope!
Qwantom wrote:I noticed a bug that you might wanna look into flame blast and hail of bones can target friendlies, so, go on the other side of a wall and kill stuff, they try to find the caster, who is impossible for them to get to. i won't do it unless you deem appropriate again.
can you elaborate?
Qwantom
Kodiak has probably banned me by now.
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:56 am
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Qwantom »

eggmceye wrote:
Qwantom wrote:
I noticed a bug that you might wanna look into flame blast and hail of bones can target friendlies, so, go on the other side of a wall and kill stuff, they try to find the caster, who is impossible for them to get to. i won't do it unless you deem appropriate again.
can you elaborate?
If you turn your targeting to party, and have a party member far off beyond your non-party target range and behind a wall you cannot see through, You can still cast both flameblast and hail of bones, allowing you to safely kill anything behind a wall it cannot get through. For example, from the stairwell in minotaur halls next to stormwell, my brother cast hail of bones on me through the same floor portal room with a balron and daemons without risking either of our lives to kill anything.
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

very interesting, thanks
edit: which flame blast?
Eclips
egg has really fucked this game up :(
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:06 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Pretty sure you can do the same with VOG.
Qwantom
Kodiak has probably banned me by now.
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:56 am
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Qwantom »

The priest flameblast, Or rather, any multi-target spell that requires a target to activate, VOG included.
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

Eclips wrote:Pretty sure you can do the same with VOG.
which means been able to do it for 11-12 years .. too late to fix? :psychotic:
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

next patch: look at the speed line: actual delay in ms, lower the better (as far as speed goes, but doesn't take into account dmg scaling server side, a whole anohter kettle of worms)
snip.PNG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

with giblet golem: what if instead of having 5 separate giblets, the giblets assembled into a voltron like golem of giblets, such that there is only one summon instead of 5 ...
the animation of assembling could be amusing for a while
Eclips
egg has really fucked this game up :(
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:06 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by Eclips »

Hahahahaha i was actually gonna suggest that, but thought it was probably too hard to do. Bring on Gibtron!



And yeah Mack and I used the VOG cheese for years. X-D Tried to kill shadow warriors and mages at lvl 60ish that way. Worked a lot better when mobs couldn't walk through invisible players tho.
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!

Post by eggmceye »

I think it would be cool if necros were a dex/int build: just means they gotta get their HP from somewhere else ... bone armour? bone offhand? something else ... what else already gives good HP buffs ... the only problem with wearables is that it takes up a slot ... so maybe necros could routinely sacrifice or consume something that gave them a hp buff
Post Reply