Necromancers ARE LIVE!
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
well at least the server hasn't crashed !
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
Necros get 50% from summons, everyone else gets 10%1[WoWz] wrote:IIRC, if a summon kills a monster, you only get like 10% of the exp. It could have been changed though. IMO it should be closer to 90%.Eclips wrote:I haven't been using summons, because I can't remember what the rule is for summons and XP. Last I remember they were an XP sink. However, I cannot survive solo partying without them in areas that I could solo as a mage.
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
The stat build should be sorted out soon: currently it is totally split between INT for those two spells, and STR/DEX for hexblades and hp and speed. Maybe this is ok? But definitely, aoeBones+explosion need to scale with INT ... both have been a bit problematic sofarEclips wrote:-If only two spells scale on INT, you're driving people to build more STR/DEX than seems thematically unreasonable.
Yeh maybe less summons that are more powerful. Necro summons give 50% to the caster (and the party): could crank that higher tooEclips wrote:-Because of summons stealing XP, and cluttering the screen, they are considered useless to all classes. Pets are much more effective and people still bitch if you bring them along in a party hunt.
very good observationEclips wrote:- Since Giblets, corpse explosion and hail of bones are non scaling, they are too good at early levels and useless at later levels.
I think the bone invis is a good idea - a lot of gaps can be filled via bonecraftingEclips wrote:- Summons are the only form of survival that necros currently have, and they are useless in the middle of a battle. You can't summon quick enough to achieve mobs strong enough to survive one blow.
- more utility from bonesEclips wrote:- Because they will be more difficult to play, and don't have the utility of mages, there should be some sort of payout (More Damage, different types of utility)
- I'm going to roll one on weekly and see how difficult they are. be cool to make them less difficult some how, which sounds like an interface thing
yeh maybe, even on PD I find all the weapon skills dreadfully slow to grind up - having said that, and I've been thinking it for ages, maybe in the year 2015 we could do with a bit less grinding ...Eclips wrote:-I would make hexblades a little easier to GM since good Necro game play will keep you from attacking with them as often as other melee classes.
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
Would it be possible to Scale the kryss and Rondel hexes and the LS and Scythes differently? 25 str 75 dex on rondel/kryss would mitigate the weird amount of health necros have.
Do summons only steal XP if they are dealing the killing blow? Honestly I never understood why they absorb any of the xp. They don't get any benefit from it like pets do (lvls), and by the time you can get any damage dealing ones, they aren't useful. I wouldn't make summons a priority when you work on necros, especially if you're still introducing undead pets, but maybe after you can look at the system as a whole?
I like the idea of you filling a lot of gaps with bonecrafting. Adds a further change from mages.
I don't think their difficulty is out of control, but really necros are the biggest examples of doing combos in the game. Only other I can think of is trying to pull off a sleep + XC. Necros are attacking, while at least casting giblets and corpse explosion, but I definitely see other spells being thrown in the mix.
In terms of utility they definitely need some sort of escape or something defensive along those lines. Maybe instead of the invisibility wand, something that cuts your threat level, or displaces your threat level (IE shadow Clone). Would be something different from the norm, but still fill that gap.
Maybe also something like Animated Arm or Baby Corpser that can slow down movement speed and let you avoid physical attacks easier.
Tome of Human Flesh - crafted from corpses and other materials- acts a an offhand item.
Potential other ingredients to add variety:
-Vampire Heart
-Crystalized Lich Soul
Do summons only steal XP if they are dealing the killing blow? Honestly I never understood why they absorb any of the xp. They don't get any benefit from it like pets do (lvls), and by the time you can get any damage dealing ones, they aren't useful. I wouldn't make summons a priority when you work on necros, especially if you're still introducing undead pets, but maybe after you can look at the system as a whole?
I like the idea of you filling a lot of gaps with bonecrafting. Adds a further change from mages.
I don't think their difficulty is out of control, but really necros are the biggest examples of doing combos in the game. Only other I can think of is trying to pull off a sleep + XC. Necros are attacking, while at least casting giblets and corpse explosion, but I definitely see other spells being thrown in the mix.
In terms of utility they definitely need some sort of escape or something defensive along those lines. Maybe instead of the invisibility wand, something that cuts your threat level, or displaces your threat level (IE shadow Clone). Would be something different from the norm, but still fill that gap.
Maybe also something like Animated Arm or Baby Corpser that can slow down movement speed and let you avoid physical attacks easier.
Tome of Human Flesh - crafted from corpses and other materials- acts a an offhand item.
Potential other ingredients to add variety:
-Vampire Heart
-Crystalized Lich Soul
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
We need a counter on the main page; something to the tune of "(x) hours since last major technical failure!"eggmceye wrote:well at least the server hasn't crashed !
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
That they are, and i'm very happy. I noticed a bug that you might wanna look into flame blast and hail of bones can target friendlies, so, go on the other side of a wall and kill stuff, they try to find the caster, who is impossible for them to get to. i won't do it unless you deem appropriate again.
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
oh, and the npc that you summon to cast hail of bones, cant be moved through if you have truesight
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
What happens if you have mixed levels? If you have both necromancer and priest skills, for example, will sword golem give you 50% of the xp? Or will necromancer summons give reduced xp? Or will they each give the xp that you'd normally get with them, i.e., necro summons give 50% xp, while the sword golem will eat 90% of your xp?eggmceye wrote:Necros get 50% from summons, everyone else gets 10%
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
Egg, you noted that Hexblades are slightly faster than their counterparts. Is this true despite their attack speed reading the same value for both weapons?
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
There are two aspects to weapon speed (it should be thought of as delay actually!)Stretchy wrote:Egg, you noted that Hexblades are slightly faster than their counterparts. Is this true despite their attack speed reading the same value for both weapons?
i) 1st is the base Delay (in ms) of the entire weapon skillset, eg longswords or hexblades or ranged - that is fixed for entire set and can be found in dat/common.cfg
ii) then each weapon has a delay modifier that is in dat/weapons.txt : this is the number you see in your stats window: and is multiplied to each weapon to work out actual delay. What you see in the window SHOULD be the product of these two numbers, including copper matieral delay reduction - tho this is something I've never really thought about!
The longsword vs athame: they both have 2.2 delay multiplier which is what you refer to. But overall, the hexblade base delay is 275ms compared to longswords which is 275. But what I said is also a red herring: because base delay of shortswords is 240 - so indeed a stilletto actually works out to be slower than a rondel
necro summons give 50% xp when you have 100% in necromancy, and that is scaled down proportionately towards the default 10% as your necromancy decreases: eg 50% necro would bring your xp bonus from 10% to 10+50*0.5=35%xp bonusRanko wrote:What happens if you have mixed levels? If you have both necromancer and priest skills, for example, will sword golem give you 50% of the xp? Or will necromancer summons give reduced xp? Or will they each give the xp that you'd normally get with them, i.e., necro summons give 50% xp, while the sword golem will eat 90% of your xp?eggmceye wrote:Necros get 50% from summons, everyone else gets 10%
I don't have any ideas yet beyond what has been posted - will pull my finger out soon I hope!Eclips wrote:Any chance we can get a preview of what you have planned for bone crafting?
can you elaborate?Qwantom wrote:I noticed a bug that you might wanna look into flame blast and hail of bones can target friendlies, so, go on the other side of a wall and kill stuff, they try to find the caster, who is impossible for them to get to. i won't do it unless you deem appropriate again.
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
If you turn your targeting to party, and have a party member far off beyond your non-party target range and behind a wall you cannot see through, You can still cast both flameblast and hail of bones, allowing you to safely kill anything behind a wall it cannot get through. For example, from the stairwell in minotaur halls next to stormwell, my brother cast hail of bones on me through the same floor portal room with a balron and daemons without risking either of our lives to kill anything.eggmceye wrote:can you elaborate?Qwantom wrote:
I noticed a bug that you might wanna look into flame blast and hail of bones can target friendlies, so, go on the other side of a wall and kill stuff, they try to find the caster, who is impossible for them to get to. i won't do it unless you deem appropriate again.
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
very interesting, thanks
edit: which flame blast?
edit: which flame blast?
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
The priest flameblast, Or rather, any multi-target spell that requires a target to activate, VOG included.
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
which means been able to do it for 11-12 years .. too late to fix?Eclips wrote:Pretty sure you can do the same with VOG.
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
next patch: look at the speed line: actual delay in ms, lower the better (as far as speed goes, but doesn't take into account dmg scaling server side, a whole anohter kettle of worms)
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
with giblet golem: what if instead of having 5 separate giblets, the giblets assembled into a voltron like golem of giblets, such that there is only one summon instead of 5 ...
the animation of assembling could be amusing for a while
the animation of assembling could be amusing for a while
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Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
Hahahahaha i was actually gonna suggest that, but thought it was probably too hard to do. Bring on Gibtron!
And yeah Mack and I used the VOG cheese for years. Tried to kill shadow warriors and mages at lvl 60ish that way. Worked a lot better when mobs couldn't walk through invisible players tho.
And yeah Mack and I used the VOG cheese for years. Tried to kill shadow warriors and mages at lvl 60ish that way. Worked a lot better when mobs couldn't walk through invisible players tho.
Re: Necromancers ARE LIVE!
I think it would be cool if necros were a dex/int build: just means they gotta get their HP from somewhere else ... bone armour? bone offhand? something else ... what else already gives good HP buffs ... the only problem with wearables is that it takes up a slot ... so maybe necros could routinely sacrifice or consume something that gave them a hp buff