Class Balance

Moderator: EUO Moderators

User avatar
CinisterD
Tune in next time & see how they do it.
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:26 pm

Class Balance

Post by CinisterD »

This is what I've come to understand each class as, and I've spoken to others who feel similarly.

Hoping to figure out what works for each class, and what doesn't, in an attempt to continue class balancing.

I have the most to say about the original 3 classes, as I know them the best. Anyone who knows the new classes in depth, jump in!

Druids- Great for a second class, but not a popular first class choice. A modern battlemage, having strong magics and physical moves. Needs one or two more spells/abilities, but overall rather versatile. Add water pipes!

Necromancers- Probably the strongest of the newer classes. Bone has become the best tint in the game, and it works best on necros. Another hybrid magic/physical fighter. Plenty of fun tools/spells to play with. Good HP for higher levels, and lots of options. AoE Kings. A tier higher than the other newer classes, in my opinion.

Monks- Probably the most in depth of the classes, in terms of useful abilities. Incredibly well rounded, and has the most playstyles of any class (stances). Great specials, fast attacks, and plenty of spells. I've heard people say Monks don't do enough damage alone at high levels, but I haven't tested this in depth.

Priests- One of the most popular second class options in the game. Piety is extremely useful, and they are incredibly powerful, physically. Plenty of useful spells and buffs. Perfect support class. Greater power word pain is one of the best spells in game. Biggest setback is they work like fighters when hutning solo (slow, steady grind), without any of the fighter perks.

Mages- Probably has the most abilities/spells in game. Can gain more MR than any other class, due to intellegence (you can block up to a blood lord, with currently attainable MR levels). Many spells aren't used nearly enough, while others have become placeholders (minor summon, charm, magic missle). They have use at low levels, but often never get used past the newbie dungeons. Unable to compete in Epic instances due to low HP and unintended magic immune mobs. Physically, the weakest class (as they should be). Extremely powerful against magic mobs, but paper thin against anything physical. Many people don't play due to too simple of gameplay (spam spells, move, heal, repeat), mages dying too easily at high levels, and due to this being the class that has changed the least since dividing up the original three classes. Int is the second highest stacking stat when buffing, which does prove useful. The only class without a weapon specifically for themselves. Would benefit immensely from mage stances.

Rogues- Likely the class that needed an update the most (thankfully bards are coming). Dex has the least value of the three stats. Rogues often fall into a grey area where they arent tough physically, or magically. They make up for it with the highest damage output in the game. They are the definition of a glass cannon. Recent changes to rogue skills have helped quite a bit (security skill). Many weapons and playstyles (especially with bards coming), but can often feel like you are pinned into using a certain playstyle, due to it being so much more effective (shortswords and muskets). Needs a dodge improvement, and potentially more walking buffs.

Fighters- The strongest of the classes, hands down. Str is the most useful of all stats, mainly due to increased HP. Can stack Str higher than any other stat, acheiving higher stats than any class in game. Tons of weapons, and an arsenal of new abilities and stances (new when compared to improvements for the other original classes). The combination of tactics and block make them brick walls, and you can make it so they take (and give) 1/2 damage. Fighters at 500 can beat Epic bosses that were programmed to take on a full 5 man party. I cannot stress enough how much more powerful fighters are than any other class in the game. They level very slow, and make for likely the hardest grind in the game, but make up for it ten fold.

TL;DR

Fighters are stronger than everything else. The newer classes could benefit from one or two more abilties, but are pretty solid. Mages and rogues need an overhaul (rogues are getting one with bards, but could use more).

I have specific suggestions for mages (egg said I could make three suggestions!), but I want to hear about balancing all classes, rather than asking to improve one class and ignore everything else.
Last edited by CinisterD on Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Hey.... pssttt Back in Orgeon

Re: Class Balance

Post by Keighn »

Seems spot on. Obviously dual or multi-classing makes a new beast so the classic fighter/priest is very much a solo tank. A mage/rogue would be like hidden artillery. /priest anything increases survival. I never had much luck wolith necromancers. I guess I just didn’t find the sweet spot to cycle spells in the proper order. They are fun in their own way. I wanted solid bone armor to make a Death Knight, or similar class for rogue and monk (referring to solid bone armor).

Druid. I know nada. Haven’t been able to play test them.

Monks I wish had ninja stars or a chargeable energy attack but that’s just old oriental movies and DBZ influence.
Tink
Post in swahili or SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:59 pm

Re: Class Balance

Post by Tink »

Monks, need some AOE, wallop might be a good start, but the damage output would be marginal. They need something with a bit more power, to put them closer to fighter clear speed. Single target, they are pretty wicked. I have found Monk to be a great secondary to almost every class.

Druids are interesting, I could probably main one in Hydra + VOG Staff which is pretty fun. But you run into the same issue mentioned above, low HP. Croc is insanely good, on so many levels. But at the end of the day, most people including myself run them as a secondary class (which isn't horrible right?). I feel like druids could be fleshed out more like monks re: the other forms.. they seem to be placeholders, no synergy with entangle. I mentioned potentially having treants battle roar on summon, so they function like mirror images. I think that would help with survival if you're running Hydra/Snek form.

Necros are my bread and butter. I was probably the loudest about the HOB nerf ruining the class, but it has actually made them a bit more interesting to play. Black lightning with a vamp weapon seems to shit on healing bolt or whatever its called. I would like to see more hexblade specials. Hob Cooldown is a little high (i've mentioned this). I think having it up once per group of monsters would be nice. Necros have a bit more HP than mages, but still seem to run into issues as mages if you're a pure necro. Necro spell damage drop off seems a little intense at higher levels. Not sure if there has been a change, but 2h sickle vs Athame damage was the same.

Mages I completely agree, they are great for normal monsters, but once you start climbing into heroic territory the lack of HP, useful mitigation seems to really screw them.

Fighters, agreed.

Rogues, I dont think the bard 'class' is going to help them drastically. But it should mix things up a bit. I feel like the rogue game play is stuck in 2005. But I haven't been a rogue since like 2010 so I can't really say too much on the subject.

Priests are boring, everyone knows it, nothing new there. I feel like they could benefit from new spells, and new weapon skills/abilities. I kind of envision them more like paladins. Their 8th circle.. or is it 7th? Spell the fireblast one.. that sucks. Such a high tier spell, for little damage. Priests are just fighters that can aoe bleed, and heal.

After Bards, I'd like to see some focus shift back to the current classes. Maybe work around the idea of running hybrid classes (seems to be the new thing with the race updates). More synergy between class skills. Maybe a low tier backstab if you have 100 stealth, but with any weapon. That would make rogues more interesting to multi class with.
User avatar
DUTCHMAN
buying vamp LS of any kind +5
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:51 am

Re: Class Balance

Post by DUTCHMAN »

I'm only going to talk about fighter, rogue, str, dex, and int. those are what I have played and what I can comment on. I will also mention an observation about Mages:

Fighter: Jesus Christ where do I begin. Fighters are the slowest climb in the game, but what happens when you reach 350-400 is amazing. you reach god. especially among other players. Does anyone else find it odd that whenever a fighter was in a tourney bracket they won? I have played fighters for 8 years and each time I play a new one it gets more broken. DUTCHMAN can reach over 3k hp. with tank stance your looking at what, a technical 4500ish hp? With croc form I had 2600 hp and 5126 MR. I can include the screenshot in the next comment. I should not have mage like mr on a fighter, without having non fighters being able to reach that. NEOSHAMAN is going to be stronger.

Im not saying fighters should get a nerf, in fact i"m saying that maybe we should bring up the other classes. we could possibly do that with what im going to say below.

1. Dex
A. As long as you are sinking in points to dex, you should always be getting faster, in movement and in combat.
B. If you want to cap the movement and attack speed, fine, buuuuuttt you could add a buff to MR. so for example lets say after 1,500 points in dex you don't receive any kinda of boost for movement or combat, the player would start receiving more mr per point of dex.
C. MORE HP, maybe tweaking the percentage gain by an increase of .25% to .5% of a point per dex,

2. INT
A. Absolutely needs more hp growth. I think they would benefit from the same type of buff that dex could receive, .25% to .5% per each point of INT.
B. Mana sink options would be cool. Sink like a % of your mana for a % buff in many areas, HP,MR,DEX,STR,AS,DEF. A "STANCE" would be cool. Maybe 100:25 ratio for some things and maybe higher/lower for others. (just spit balling) So lets say someone sinks 1000 mana for a str boost, they would receive 250 more str points. if they wanted to do hp they could get 500 more. they def would get 30 more, mr could be 1:1 (would be cool but probably wouldn't happen), those are just ideas. Also a mana sink to buff up spell for the next cast. so lets say xc does 300 damage, you would have to sink 25% of your mana to boost that spell to do triple or quadruple. High Risk high reward type policy

Rogues: I enjoy it. I would say an mr and hp boost would be nice. A fix in dex would fix a lot with rogues.

Mages: I have never played a mage, but I have tanked for so many over the years. Its sad to see so many mages quit and switch classes because they just don't stack up in the long run. I've seen high level mages do less damage with magic to mobs, than I have with my one-hander. When the tank is out-damaging a class that should be for DPS, we have a problem.

Bonus content: adding more hp to the hp shrine. its more of a bandaid, but it would not hurt at all. double it. screw it. go from 8 to 16.
User avatar
Mackey
Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills.
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:18 am
Location: Cleveland, OH, US
Contact:

Re: Class Balance

Post by Mackey »

[Place Holder]

If I get bored, I'll go through all the dex, mage, fighter, etc threads and get the general consensus and best ideas to consolidate here.
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Class Balance

Post by eggmceye »

decent posts
User avatar
CinisterD
Tune in next time & see how they do it.
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:26 pm

Re: Class Balance

Post by CinisterD »

Such a great response from everyone! Thanks!!

Glad to see what I'm saying resonates with other players (so far at least).

Looking over things so far:

- Necros when played fully magic still suffer from low HP, as do druids.
- Rogues could benefit from either higher walking and attack speed, increased dodging, or another special attack (likely all of them).
- People agree about fighters.
- People agree about mages.
- Monks need some AOE.
- Priests are dry, but effective (not a bad thing).
- People like the new classes, and think they could each benefit with one or two very minor tweaks (nice job, egg!).
- The Idea is to bring classes up to par with fighters, not nerf fighters, as they are actually fun to play despite a slower grind.
- People seem to like more customization, and hybrid class ideas (maybe more class synergy/bonuses?).


My ideas :

Make all three stats give the same HP, or a increased HP gain for Dex and Int (+1), and a slightly lower increase for Str (+0.5) (still giving fighters more hp, but careful not to overdo it). < This fixes a lot of issues with non fighter/priest builds, especially at higher levels.

Give monks an AOE special- "Iron Fist" or "Ground Pound". Maybe a low damage, AOE AEP? Just minor crowd control.

Increased dodging or weapon damage for rogues. This could be interesting. Leaning more into the glass cannon role, that shying away from it. With an overall HP boost, it could compliment very nicely. Would also add more reliable play styles for rogues. Maybe a ranged and a 1h sword stance? "Ranger stance / Duelist stance".

Increase Flam Grav damage for priests.

Ok egg, I'm finally cashing in. :aus:

Mages - My official 3 suggestions for egg (as discussed in April, I really took time to think this over).

1. Mage Stances:

Mana Shield: When active, regeneration and vigor stop working (the mage is focusing all of his attention on crafting the shield). While active, mages lose mana before hp while taking damage, at a 3:1 ratio (getting hit for 50 dmg while mana shield is on, will reduce mana by 150). Mages cast at 50% damage while mana shield is active (A mage tank stance). Also, IJO would do 4x damage against a mana shield.

(Lets say a mage has 800 hp at lvl 500, and 4000 mana. With an Hp boost of 1hp per level, that puts the mage at 1300 hp, and 4000 mana. With mana shield, it's as if a mage had 2633 HP while "mage tanking". Fighters get an easy 4500+ hp [without losing regen and vigor] under similar thinking).

Magus Stance: 2x Mana consumption, for 1.5x magic damage. Plain and simple.

2. Specials -

Make Mana Cleave Reduce MR to 0 - Is it really that big of a deal that a mage can hit an epic shadowlord? Not kill, just do damage against. They still get crushed by the big bad, but at least they have a chance. This is also a failsafe for any remaining unintended magic immune mobs. Still available to any class.

Mana Drain - A new distance special that works similarly to soul steal, but with mana (does not work during mana shield). Drains X mana over 5 seconds, and target unable to move during spell. Mage specific.

3. Spell Overhaul -

Greater polymorph - Turns into a stronger than green dragon (of eggs choosing) [Give mages a halfway decent physical option, even if it still is subpar to other classes].

Increase lighter load to +500.

Make flame wind a circle 7 spell, and slightly reduce damage. Then make chain lightning circle 8, and slightly increase damage.

Update summon to spawn newer mobs (not asking for blood wyverns, id be fine with mid tier apoc spawns. Just more diversity). Summoning mobs in general isn't the most useful at the moment, and is a big part of magery (4 different spells).

Also, I know its actually a 4th suggestion (sorry), but I'd really like a mage specific weapon.

Super long post, i know. Sorry. I felt everything was worth mentioning though, so we can start building on what would actually work.
Last edited by CinisterD on Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
DUTCHMAN
buying vamp LS of any kind +5
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:51 am

Re: Class Balance

Post by DUTCHMAN »

CinisterD wrote: Mana Shield: When active, regeneration and vigor stop working (the mage is focusing all of his attention on crafting the shield). While active, mages lose mana before hp while taking damage, at a 2:1 ratio (getting hit for 50 dmg while mana shield is on, will reduce mana by 100). Mages cast at 50% damage while mana shield is active (A mage tank stance). Also, IJO would do 4x damage against a mana shield.

(Lets say a mage has 800 hp at lvl 500, and 4000 mana. With an Hp boost of 1hp per level, that puts the mage at 1300 hp, and 4000 mana. With mana shield, it's as if a mage had 3300 HP while "mage tanking". Fighters get an easy 4500+ hp [without losing regen and vigor] under similar thinking).

Magus Stance: 2x Mana consumption, for 1.5x magic damage. Plain and simple.

2. Specials -

Make Mana Cleave Reduce MR to 0 - Is it really that big of a deal that a mage can hit an epic shadowlord? Not kill, just do damage against. They still get crushed by the big bad, but at least they have a chance. This is also a failsafe for any remaining unintended magic immune mobs. Still available to any class.

Mana Drain - A new distance special that works similarly to soul steal, but with mana (does not work during mana shield). Drains X mana over 5 seconds, and target unable to move during spell. Mage specific.

I agree with everyhting listed above, but I want to make a suggestion to this. Maybe go 3:1. With your high mr you can still lesser the damage of incoming attacks, so if somehting hits you for 300 it should hit your mana for 900. 600 (as the original 2:1 says) is a little low IMO. I think its an amazing suggestion and give more playability to mages.

Mana Drain sounds epic honestly and im suprised its not in the game
User avatar
CinisterD
Tune in next time & see how they do it.
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:26 pm

Re: Class Balance

Post by CinisterD »

DUTCHMAN wrote:
I agree with everyhting listed above, but I want to make a suggestion to this. Maybe go 3:1. With your high mr you can still lesser the damage of incoming attacks, so if somehting hits you for 300 it should hit your mana for 900. 600 (as the original 2:1 says) is a little low IMO. I think its an amazing suggestion and give more playability to mages.

Mana Drain sounds epic honestly and im suprised its not in the game
Good call. I was thinking 3:1 originally. The math seems to work more fairly. I'll update the post to have your suggestion in it.
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Hey.... pssttt Back in Orgeon

Re: Class Balance

Post by Keighn »

Funny there isn’t a mechanic where mana drains or your spirit vitality is poisoned and drains like hp. Technically an enfeeblement ability could prevent rage meter while in effect if that sort of spell/effect was ever implemented.
ZUPS!!!!
User avatar
CinisterD
Tune in next time & see how they do it.
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:26 pm

Re: Class Balance

Post by CinisterD »

Keighn wrote:Funny there isn’t a mechanic where mana drains or your spirit vitality is poisoned and drains like hp. Technically an enfeeblement ability could prevent rage meter while in effect if that sort of spell/effect was ever implemented.
Thats actually an awesome idea. A mana poison of sorts. I'd love to have something like this in game.
User avatar
speed
LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:49 am

Re: Class Balance

Post by speed »

I'm pretty much in agreement with CinisterD on every point—well, almost every point. I definitely agree with MR cleave, for instance. However I think I have a slightly different take on mages, since my character did invest quite a few levels in str, dex, and hp (Yeah, I leveled 120 times in the Shrine of Vitality).

For me, the obvious drawback of mages is the boatload of high-MR/MR immune mobs in late game. Damage output for stuff like fighting heroic dragons seems fine.

Here's my criticism:

- Magus Stance is super overpowered. I mean, the fighter's berserker's stance only buffs attack speed by 25%, and has more limitations. Even though I'm not even a pure mage, I have ~2000 mana, and I hardly ever can cast fast enough to run out unless I'm spamming VOG for 10 minutes. A few mega blue potions would completely nullify the drawback. Either make it 5-10x mana consumption, increase the attack by 10-20%, or make it passively drain mana at an extremely fast rate (maybe prevent blue potions for the duration of the stance?).

- Vas Ex Uus already feels pretty generous at +300 load. (Honestly, it only seems like a problem for a pure mage, but feel free to prove me wrong on this).

- Well, in general, I just want more spell variety. Greater polymorph and summon seem like great first steps. I do want to bring up, however, that polymorph still relies on the unarmed skill (iirc). Also, it sort of bugs me that at high int levels, you can spawn daemons/devils with Kal Xen, which take up two summon slots instead of one.
-Speed(COG) = [Grandmaster Stafffighter idk...]
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Hey.... pssttt Back in Orgeon

Re: Class Balance

Post by Keighn »

While great for pvp or mobs using on players I’m not sure if it’d deplete mob mana. They seem pretty infinite in their casting.

Hell there’s a lot of spell mechanics that sound awesome. Think slow spell or a web. I know many players use the lure tactic or all-balls run fer yer life when shit gets too heavy. And I recall many players complained of slow movement in armor or vs terrain (be really glad egg didn’t keep the SLOW PROGRESS thing from u4-5 where you didn’t move but just got that message). Webs you can at least burn I suppose.

Fumble to induce misses rather than disarming you but I could see that as cool too esp pvp.
Blindness isn’t used nearly enough and I’m unsure if the rogue ability lasts all that long (I was using it a lot on a 1/2 orc rogue).

Counter magic spells to induce mages fumbling spells like when a melee bastard is next to you.

And WALL spells. All this time and we don’t really have spells to make hp-tank walls, force fields, fire fields, poison fields, sleep fields, etc up to prismatic walls with multiple effects.

A dispell spell to destroy the wall though one might argue on a prismatic it only destroys 1 effect.

I recall some pnp and a few tactical games where magic defense strategy was key to success. Atm it’s a solid MR thing with some def (though many high mobs are just spell flinging death machines.

I agree with Mackey that maybe some food buffs should utilize % more than just a flat buff #. I’d have to look at the ingredients in the food though. Take it from a LOTL perspective though (which doesn’t help my argument since Lotl want better bonuses with ease... ).

I love confusion and the attacking or moving in random directions is cool. Dunno how well that works pvp but seems like cycling that in with offensive would wipe out the competition. Seems... I never pvp much except to get practice to help others train their skills (honestly.. I’d rather train my skills and get do at the same time. AH low levels and the newb world).

Was fire/cold/spike shield spells created? Mob strikes you but it takes magical fire/cold/physical dmg?

Barbed shield? Bleeding. Poison/disease?
ZUPS!!!!
User avatar
CinisterD
Tune in next time & see how they do it.
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:26 pm

Re: Class Balance

Post by CinisterD »

Thanks for responding! Going to break things down, piece by piece.
speed wrote:I'm pretty much in agreement with CinisterD on every point—well, almost every point.
Glad to see so many people are agreeing about my ideas and perspective! I love it when the community gets along!
speed wrote: I definitely agree with MR cleave, for instance. However I think I have a slightly different take on mages, since my character did invest quite a few levels in str, dex, and hp (Yeah, I leveled 120 times in the Shrine of Vitality).
1. Really happy to hear people backing MR cleave. As I mentioned, if nothing else, it's a great failsafe.

2. Glad to hear another mages perspective with a different build! 120 levels, wow! Goes to show how much mages need HP. I have abut 35 levels dumped at the moment, and want to dump more.
speed wrote: For me, the obvious drawback of mages is the boatload of high-MR/MR immune mobs in late game. Damage output for stuff like fighting heroic dragons seems fine.
I totally agree!
speed wrote:Here's my criticism:

- Magus Stance is super overpowered. I mean, the fighter's berserker's stance only buffs attack speed by 25%, and has more limitations. Even though I'm not even a pure mage, I have ~2000 mana, and I hardly ever can cast fast enough to run out unless I'm spamming VOG for 10 minutes. A few mega blue potions would completely nullify the drawback. Either make it 5-10x mana consumption, increase the attack by 10-20%, or make it passively drain mana at an extremely fast rate (maybe prevent blue potions for the duration of the stance?).
I am 100% fine with increasing mana cost. This is all aboout balance afterall! Don't want to get too crazy. I'm also fine with a fast passive mana drain effect.
speed wrote:- Vas Ex Uus already feels pretty generous at +300 load. (Honestly, it only seems like a problem for a pure mage, but feel free to prove me wrong on this).
Aagin, this is about class balance. At level 213, my fighter has a carry load of 1270, and still has almost 300 levels to increase. Currently my level 200 fighter has more than double the carry load of Cinister at 500, after the potential lighter load increase to 500, AND getting a respec and adding 100 str. A load of around 500-600 isn't game breaking by any means, and still gives mages likely the lowest carry weight in the game. Many players use multiple outfits while hunting (equipment runes), and mages are one of the classes that benefit the most from multiple gear options. Such a low carry weight discourages mages from using multiple gear options (and spending money on runes, egg!). I'm not a big fan of having to choose between bringing my vigor gear with me, or if I want more than 15 of each mega potion (again, at level 500). Again, keep in mind you added 100+ levels to get your mage working the way you want. Not knocking you by ANY means, just pointing out how much work needs to be done to make a mage work at high levels.
speed wrote: - Well, in general, I just want more spell variety. Greater polymorph and summon seem like great first steps. I do want to bring up, however, that polymorph still relies on the unarmed skill (iirc). Also, it sort of bugs me that at high int levels, you can spawn daemons/devils with Kal Xen, which take up two summon slots instead of one.
Really happy to hear you like the spell ideas! GREAT observation about Kal Xen. Goes to show you summoning needs tweaks.
User avatar
CinisterD
Tune in next time & see how they do it.
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:26 pm

Re: Class Balance

Post by CinisterD »

Keighn wrote:While great for pvp or mobs using on players I’m not sure if it’d deplete mob mana. They seem pretty infinite in their casting.
This could be a good opportunity to make a finite mana pool on mobs!

Keighn wrote: And WALL spells. All this time and we don’t really have spells to make hp-tank walls, force fields, fire fields, poison fields, sleep fields, etc up to prismatic walls with multiple effects.
Mana Shield!
Keighn wrote: I agree with Mackey that maybe some food buffs should utilize % more than just a flat buff #. I’d have to look at the ingredients in the food though. Take it from a LOTL perspective though (which doesn’t help my argument since Lotl want better bonuses with ease... ).
I also agree, this was a great idea!
User avatar
SanJorge
Post in swahili or SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:02 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Class Balance

Post by SanJorge »

I think str,dex and int need some change in interacting and not only for player stats .

STR gives HP but ,should give damage too .
DEX give walkspeed (limited) and dodge ( odd prolly buggy, i can dodge enchant VF with 25 dex very often).
INT give mr and mana .

STR having more damage (1 damage per 10 str additional to the weapon ratio)is OP , i think no if dex is works and you would miss regular attack on a rogue of same lvl but specials should use dex more(50% double , 100% quad) and miss should give rage too and no 100% dodge.

Ranged mage spells should be generally dodgeable some just harder, this could force mage to come closer to rogue or rogue-like monster( if they will ever exist) and keep max range from fighters or fighter-like monsters (still rare) .

Mages might need some extra spells like mana shield vs late game monsters which usually do high magic damage. I don't think mana shield will be OP , mages use mana for spells so it will be drained fast.

Monks could use turtle aspect based on % . 50/50 str,dex with more damage from str and better dodge/hit rate from dex could make monks very strong.

not sure how would necro (prolly more melee damage) or druid change.
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Hey.... pssttt Back in Orgeon

Re: Class Balance

Post by Keighn »

Anyone test spell dodging in the arena?
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Hey.... pssttt Back in Orgeon

Re: Class Balance

Post by Keighn »

I always hoped for a monk special defense bracers for blocking that works in conjunction with dodging. Watching a lot of tournaments and there's a lot of both and monks... well they don't have block at all in euo. Sticking with the DBZ sort of think perhaps they get some sort of energy ball attack (god the dbz thing) if they have 100% meditation and charge up. This is a pretty damn dangerous idea so it'd probably be akin to a Spirit ball attack rather than a Kamehameha thing.

Specials might be similar to a multi-strike single target
A jump kick charge attack that knocks the target down or knocks them back.
A sweeping kick that knocks opponent prone.

Problem with lots of multiple attacks is trying to perform them or utilize them. There's limited rage and that rage only goes to a full bar. If rage could keep building beyond white and stack then you could really perform more special attack in a chain. In fact that could allow chaining attacks like in other mmos (if you had the rage build up).

Its funny there is no spell rage that I know of (again, I'm not all that adept on necromancers or druids so I don't know).

How far rage could go? Well, I don't know but there is the idea of a skill that could be called anything from Combat Focus or Concentration and it only goes up when you hit 100% rage and keep it up. Of course rage is hardly concentration but its fantasy. I think I played some side scrolling fighting games that had stored up rage. Higher focus the less your specials take as well.
ZUPS!!!!
User avatar
CinisterD
Tune in next time & see how they do it.
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:26 pm

Re: Class Balance

Post by CinisterD »

In theory, couldn't you just make the attacks really low rage?

Like, what if a monk attack only used 5-10 rage per attack. You'd be able to get pretty creative there.
Eclips
egg has really fucked this game up :(
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:06 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Class Balance

Post by Eclips »

What if monks just had a chance of attacking the two spaces adjecant to the mob that they're attacking. This makes sense with their class, and gives them some aoe and needed damage increase without making them OP.
Post Reply