Class Idea - Bard

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Roopert
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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by Roopert » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:58 am

eggmceye wrote:generally speaking, I think classes need at least 2 skills to make them viable

also another problem is, without using subclasses, a new class can't reuse another class's skill without a hack (eg blessed maces is a hack. hexblades are a hack), So you can't just give bards foils without making them like a 'bardfoil' something stupid like that.

unless of course bard is subclass of rogue, mutex with security - I'm pretty sure subclasses work (engine wise). so there could be 2 rogue specs: bard which gets music and assassin that gets stealth/backstab/security. would you, yes you dear reader, build a rogue with no security, or backstab or stealth, that has to carry a lute offhand, but can use a foil or one hand dagger, and can sling some sorta spells? that is the question.
I think that having the bard basically being a rogue with essentially no rogue skills (no stealth, no security, no backstab) is a MAJOR penalty. Whatever bonus they get for bardfoils and music would have to be huge to make the tradeoff worth it.

At this point, I can't see losing those skills to be able to give a party-wide regen buff or health buff is worth it, unless we are talking about a significant buff at 100% skill.

I can see the stealth and backstab because that doesn't really fit with the theme of a Bard, but security is more of a grey area. I always envision a Bard as a scoundrel, so security fits for me.

A bard - a musician essentially - can pluck a delicate tune on their instrument that can bring a tear to the eye of most jaded of kings, and can also strum a thunderous war march that brings their allies to a murderous rage! Yet cant find the agility in their hands to pick a clumsy mechanical lock?

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by eggmceye » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:47 am

eggmceye wrote:as discussed on discord, this is how bards are going to work:

a) bard will not a new class, but music will be a new skill in the rogue class
b) music will be mutually exclusive with stealth - stealth will go down as music goes up, like how maces/blessed maces work
c) music will be a set of 8 spells - haven't worked on this at all yet, but surely aoe/party mostly and surely dex based, & not int
d) music will req instrument in offhand (don't think too hard about playing a lute one handedly)
e) music should synergise with foils somehow
f) music may or may not actually be played thru your pc speakers when playing
:jam:
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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by Roopert » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:37 am

eggmceye wrote:
eggmceye wrote:as discussed on discord, this is how bards are going to work:

a) bard will not a new class, but music will be a new skill in the rogue class
b) music will be mutually exclusive with stealth - stealth will go down as music goes up, like how maces/blessed maces work
c) music will be a set of 8 spells - haven't worked on this at all yet, but surely aoe/party mostly and surely dex based, & not int
d) music will req instrument in offhand (don't think too hard about playing a lute one handedly)
e) music should synergise with foils somehow
f) music may or may not actually be played thru your pc speakers when playing
:jam:
pay attention
I guess Im still missing something. 2 posts before this you said no security/stealth/backstab. Is it only stealth or all three?

I think Im pissing you off with my questions so I think Ill just shut up and see what the Bards end result will be

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by eggmceye » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:22 am

I think when I post "THIS IS HOW IT IS GOING TO WORK" then that is how it is going to work, overriding any other previous speculation

I will give you this tho: that previous post that you refer to, even tho clearly overridden, as discussed in the line above, does talk about security more than once, when it should probably have been talking about stealth - not sure what was going thru my brain there

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by Roopert » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 am

eggmceye wrote:I think when I post "THIS IS HOW IT IS GOING TO WORK" then that is how it is going to work, overriding any other previous speculation

I will give you this tho: that previous post that you refer to, even tho clearly overridden, as discussed in the line above, does talk about security more than once, when it should probably have been talking about stealth - not sure what was going thru my brain there
Alright, good to know. That answers my question.

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by Keighn » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:26 pm

Be pretty hard to stealth and backstab rocking out loud and jamming so makes sense to me.
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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by eggmceye » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:44 pm

have done a lot of work on bards
doesn't mean any of it is any good

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by jaska » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:03 am

Any chance of it not mutexing with stealth on ng-ruleset servers? Iirc the blessed maces/maces mutex is there on ng, but
thats not an issue (other than its the only way i seem to be able to trimskill blessed maces, just beat stuff with a mace).

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by Keighn » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:10 am

I thought underscore worked? I might log on to check that.
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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by jaska » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:19 am

Keighn wrote:I thought underscore worked? I might log on to check that.
Which is awful on a finnish keyboard, especially in wine (running linux) :D

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by eggmceye » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:41 am

I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone running euo in wine with a finnish keyboard complaining abt my only good idea this year, that stealth is mutex with LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by Keighn » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:34 am

Bards will rock.
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Image
:band: :band: :band: :band: :band: :band:
Image
:jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam: :jam:
Image
:psychotic: :cow: :dance: :heart: :psychotic: :cow: :dance: :heart: :psychotic: :cow: :dance: :heart: :psychotic: :cow: :dance: :heart: :psychotic: :cow: :dance: :heart: :psychotic: :cow: :dance: :heart:
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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by jaska » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:22 pm

eggmceye wrote:I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone running euo in wine with a finnish keyboard complaining abt my only good idea this year, that stealth is mutex with LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON
Atleast you can snicker at my ng rangers musket being named Proton?Decay <.<

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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by Keighn » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:29 am

We wants laser rifle drops yessssss?
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Re: Class Idea - Bard

Post by newmagna » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:57 pm

i personally dont think stealth and music need to be mutex, as long as you cant do both at the same time, like how holding a light source deactivates stealth.
also, why not make the bard a full caster? give it two "schools" of music magic, one focused on buff/damage, the other on debuff/control

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