Make Dexterity Good Again

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Sarge
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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Sarge » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:54 pm

Assailant wrote:Caps at like 500 dex?
Nuuuuuuu. Please don't redo the shit that is movement speed right now. 500 dex is only 16% of 500 levels. It's noting. It just makes that accessible to any class again with minimal drawbacks.

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Assailant » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:52 am

Sarge wrote:
Assailant wrote:Caps at like 500 dex?
Nuuuuuuu. Please don't redo the shit that is movement speed right now. 500 dex is only 16% of 500 levels. It's noting. It just makes that accessible to any class again with minimal drawbacks.
Assuming every class keeps a perfect ratio 500 is just a nice round number. Fighters will never hit 500 dex since all fighter weps are 90/10 split now and if they choose adroit over berserk or tank stance that is their business. Ideally it would cost mana but have 100% cast chance to stress the resources and make it have some consequence. Rogue/monk wouldn't matter so much but for the fighter priests it would make it unusable since you wouldn't choose wep speed over mani spam.

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Eclips » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:06 am

Projectile spells should be dodgable. Also semi related I'd love the skull animation spell to throw a skull through the air, even if it meant it could be dodged.

What if melee Dodge remained the same, but projectile Dodge increased when you moved recently, proportionate to your walk speed. Maybe a with a distance multiplier.

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by 1[WoWz] » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:15 am

Maybe make dex give a bonus to backstab damage and success rate of backstabs? When I was more rogue, it was frustrating missing 1 out of 10 backstabs for seemingly no reason. Maybe the damage could be Standard Damage*5+(Dex*.5) instead of Standard Damage*10?
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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Tink » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:02 am

Not that I'm an expert on PVP, but casters already fumble their spells when moving.
Dodging said spells would be another nerf to casters.
From a PVE perspective I think dodging spells is pretty neat. It would make sense.. you'd eventually get so adept in acrobatics that you could side step magic attacks as well.

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by MoonGoat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:04 am

How about dexterity makes you more accurate? As in increased attack strength (AS).
Maybe 1% per 100 or 200 dex?
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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by 1[WoWz] » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:21 am

MoonGoat wrote:How about dexterity makes you more accurate? As in increased attack strength (AS).
Maybe 1% per 100 or 200 dex?
AS isn't a problem for anyone. The defense is so low for even epic mobs that AS doesn't matter at all.
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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by MoonGoat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:55 am

1[WoWz] wrote:
MoonGoat wrote:How about dexterity makes you more accurate? As in increased attack strength (AS).
Maybe 1% per 100 or 200 dex?
AS isn't a problem for anyone. The defense is so low for even epic mobs that AS doesn't matter at all.
Defense inst really that low on some new maps?
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Assailant » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:10 am

MoonGoat wrote:
1[WoWz] wrote:
MoonGoat wrote:How about dexterity makes you more accurate? As in increased attack strength (AS).
Maybe 1% per 100 or 200 dex?
AS isn't a problem for anyone. The defense is so low for even epic mobs that AS doesn't matter at all.
Defense inst really that low on some new maps?
Only thing I've found that I don't do full damage on is a heroic shadowlord but as a rogue never really gonna be fighting one solo anyways.

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Keighn » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:11 pm

Assailant wrote:
Sarge wrote:
Assailant wrote:Caps at like 500 dex?
Nuuuuuuu. Please don't redo the shit that is movement speed right now. 500 dex is only 16% of 500 levels. It's noting. It just makes that accessible to any class again with minimal drawbacks.
Assuming every class keeps a perfect ratio 500 is just a nice round number. Fighters will never hit 500 dex since all fighter weps are 90/10 split now and if they choose adroit over berserk or tank stance that is their business. Ideally it would cost mana but have 100% cast chance to stress the resources and make it have some consequence. Rogue/monk wouldn't matter so much but for the fighter priests it would make it unusable since you wouldn't choose wep speed over mani spam.

Uh...

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Keighn » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:14 pm

I’d say more critical, dodges, and weapon 2nd / 3rd skills popping up like parry, riposte (only weapon is fouls sooooo..). I’d say more blocking but that’s pretty high already.
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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Tink » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:28 pm

Ass you forgot about the beta PD players. :-P

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by CinisterD » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:23 pm

eggmceye wrote:
CinisterD wrote:Honestly, you all ( I see a lot of rogues on this thread, as it should be) would know more than I would. I probably shouldn't start disagreeing with y'all without having the same kind of experience with rogues. I just thought 25% sounded high. Should've just said that to begin with.

Giving an outside opinion to make sure the solution doesn't make another balancing problem long term.
I see you posting here, hello ... did I fix mages yet to your satisfaction (actually forgotten) LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON ?
Why, no - no you have not haha. The Epic/Heroic magic immunity issue did get rid of my initial frustration. We can agree that was an unintentional bug, that caused a big balancing issue.

You gave me the chance to make 3 suggestions, and I'm not wasting my shot. Really thinking things over and trying to have well planned ideas before presenting them.

This is the dex thread though, don't want to take away attention from here!

Also, I know you were being nice! :aus:

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by CinisterD » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:53 pm

Eclips wrote:Projectile spells should be dodgable. Also semi related I'd love the skull animation spell to throw a skull through the air, even if it meant it could be dodged.

What if melee Dodge remained the same, but projectile Dodge increased when you moved recently, proportionate to your walk speed. Maybe a with a distance multiplier.
I'd be more ok with spell dodging if the rogue had to stand still, rather than move. Make it like mage casting in pvp. (The rogue can't move because he's focused on dodging the incoming shot).

1[WoWz] wrote:Maybe make dex give a bonus to backstab damage and success rate of backstabs? When I was more rogue, it was frustrating missing 1 out of 10 backstabs for seemingly no reason. Maybe the damage could be Standard Damage*5+(Dex*.5) instead of Standard Damage*10?
You all would know the math on this more than I would, but this sounds like a reasonable idea.
Tink wrote:Not that I'm an expert on PVP, but casters already fumble their spells when moving.
Dodging said spells would be another nerf to casters.
From a PVE perspective I think dodging spells is pretty neat. It would make sense.. you'd eventually get so adept in acrobatics that you could side step magic attacks as well.
I want to back most of what is said here. Any spell dodging with minimal ease would be detrimental to PVP. I have no issue with PVE. If rogues could dodge in PVP , I would suggest caution on making it too simple. I'm open to it though. It seems to have enough people suggesting it.



Cin's Suggestion--

Make all classes 100 movement speed.

Make Dex continue to add a walking speed buff. (Up to somewhere between 150%-300% max walking speed).

Increase dodge

WILD CARD:

Have dexterity increase mana by half the rate of intelligence. Combine that with uber walk speed. Dex is fixed.

Rogues can have additional specials or some variant of spells (lets call them feats). New skill maybe?

Each "Feat" will require so much mana to use.

Feats could be simple damage attacks, or they could be temporary buffs to weapon damage types (ranged, foils, short swords).

Feats could be remaining invisible after a successful backstab (at a high level).

Feats could be a big dodge buff.

You could add that team temporary invisibility idea somewhere buried in the threads.

Think monks, but with more "tricky" or physical abilities.

Thoughts?

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by SanJorge » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:48 am

1st Dex has nothing to do with casting magic , no need for complicated stuff enemy caster uses int and you use dex, these can be used to calculate the chances to hit, some spells like lightning should give a advantage to caster, other spells like VF should just be cheap (mana use).
From some other discussion , there is probably some mage buff on the way (but not necro).

As for movement bonus , 500 dex movementspeed cap sounds ok, but bonus effect on climbing mountains with 1500 dex, lava walk 2000 dex and water walk at 3000 dex (no high seas) would be nice.(maybe higher values)

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by 1[WoWz] » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:04 am

Other options for Dex:

-Higher chance of critical hits (may depends on enemy speed or dex)

-Chance of automatically attacking twice instead of once.
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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by EmoMage » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:28 am

CinisterD wrote:Make Dex continue to add a walking speed buff. (Up to somewhere between 150%-300% max walking speed).
tho this seems simple and brilliant, i feel this would make mounts obsolete. I'd love to walk faster tho, this is a brilliant idea. just throwing that out there for you to chew on.
1[WoWz] wrote:Maybe the damage could be Standard Damage*5+(Dex*.5) instead of Standard Damage*10?

totes +1 on this one.
eggmceye wrote:
ParadoxOfChoice wrote: Zombie using bow/sling probably shouldn't give disease.

the zombies are pulling the arrows out of their ass

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by CinisterD » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:31 am

EmoMage wrote:
CinisterD wrote:Make Dex continue to add a walking speed buff. (Up to somewhere between 150%-300% max walking speed).
tho this seems simple and brilliant, i feel this would make mounts obsolete. I'd love to walk faster tho, this is a brilliant idea. just throwing that out there for you to chew on.
Thanks for the feedback!

Maybe set the full walking speed to JUST below mount speed? That or maybe you just need a mount to move as fast as a rogue would while on foot?

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by EmoMage » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:36 am

i could see that, tho i forgot that tall grass, foot hills, ect slow you down where a mount doesn't. so that's still a viable option. and FYI, if this goes in, idgaf who i'm playin on, thay all about to get a dex buff and fast. haaaaaahahahah. i love moving faster. i sorta hacked tweaked EftV to make my dex like 10k so i could move fast as shit for no reason. i love it.

edit: pardon, i'm not a hacker. i just did some.............tweaking. that sound better?
eggmceye wrote:
ParadoxOfChoice wrote: Zombie using bow/sling probably shouldn't give disease.

the zombies are pulling the arrows out of their ass

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Re: Make Dexterity Good Again

Post by Keighn » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:36 pm

This thread reads like the 2016 election. That title.
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