Necromancers - development thread (closed)

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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by treos »

greater summon undead seems to be a wide range summon spell and quite random as it currently seems to summon anything from ghosts and skeleteon warrior/archers up to skele dragons and demilich or possibly higher (still training it)
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Eclips »

Soul Transfer on a neutral target doesn't make them an enemy. Can be cheesed on some quests where target starts neutral.

Greater summon needs to have some of the summons capped the way KX does. Higher level monsters should take up extra slots. I'd also consider making it scale more on int.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Flamesoffire »

Eclips wrote:My cast times with a staff seem to be too long, at least a second longer than sorcery by my shitty count. Also, taking a staff off to see how that compared to magery spells didnt really seem to increase their cooldown.
Yeah, All the spells from about circle 5 and up dont seem to be effected by you having a staff or not. Which that im hoping is not supposed to be like that, Otherwise necros will be super slow and be a class to just look pretty. Nothing more.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by eggmceye »

thanks guys - updates below:

* necromancy get staff equipped benefits
* cold hands etc (and An Mani / GP) no longer show attack anim when failed
* tested cone of acid and it is ok - anyone can elaborate?
* fixed lesser summons to last 20 sec, greater summons upped to 30 sec
* (greater summons simply summons anything from 'monster family 5' which is basically anything from a wight to a dragon - I might change it so it just summons higher end mobs)
* updated ICK (giblet golem curse) such that the giblets are greenbar allys and that it's only PvM - and that they should give the caster xp
* updated PvP checks and disabled vs neutral for soul Transfer MPT

I don't want to drag on Necro dev for years like skeletuns etc, but I'm not particularly attached to any of it and I'm definitely listening to all opinions posted - eg different pet tactics and/or healing as posted by eclips, keighn's and CinD's stuff - plus gotta get bone armour in there
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Flamesoffire »

eggmceye wrote: * necromancy get staff equipped benefits
* cold hands etc (and An Mani / GP) no longer show attack anim when failed
* tested cone of acid and it is ok - anyone can elaborate?
* fixed lesser summons to last 20 sec, greater summons upped to 30 sec
* (greater summons simply summons anything from 'monster family 5' which is basically anything from a wight to a dragon - I might change it so it just summons higher end mobs)
* updated ICK (giblet golem curse) such that the giblets are greenbar allys and that it's only PvM - and that they should give the caster xp
* updated PvP checks and disabled vs neutral for soul Transfer MPT

Out of all of these, The only one working for me is the giblet golem, And summons. Theres no difference in casting speed with or without a staff, Nor is there a difference in vamp/addy compared to oak either (Dont know if that helps any?), As for Cone of acid, Its not like the other wind spells. It basically works like VAM. If you dont use it like VAM on a monster directly, It says no target and doesnt cast. As for soul transfer, Only one i didnt really test.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by eggmceye »

You may need to connect twice to alpha if you have been on any non alpha server. Ie if been on reg, connect to alpha, then immediately relog.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by CinisterD »

eggmceye wrote:thanks guys - updates below:

* necromancy get staff equipped benefits
* cold hands etc (and An Mani / GP) no longer show attack anim when failed
* tested cone of acid and it is ok - anyone can elaborate?
* fixed lesser summons to last 20 sec, greater summons upped to 30 sec
* (greater summons simply summons anything from 'monster family 5' which is basically anything from a wight to a dragon - I might change it so it just summons higher end mobs)
* updated ICK (giblet golem curse) such that the giblets are greenbar allys and that it's only PvM - and that they should give the caster xp
* updated PvP checks and disabled vs neutral for soul Transfer MPT

plus gotta get bone armor in there

Necros still cast (Necro based) spells slower than magery, even with staff.
Cone of acid is....well ok, I'll elaborate:

When you cast a regular wind spell (Poison, Sleep, Flame), you can cast them in any direction without a mob present. In other words you can just spew poison wind at nothing at all.

With Cone of acid, if a mob is not present, you can't cast the wind in that direction. Make sense?

Nice update with summons, maybe the higher mobs only for greater summon wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thanks for fixing giblet golem, I've actually found a nice combination already :lesson:

I still stand by my original argument with soul transfer, it's only useful if your fighting a single mob.

Ex. You walk into the Beginning of CoS and walk in too deep. You use Soul Transfer on the Shadow Daemon, and your stuck sitting while the dragons can have a free for all on you until the spell is done.

Maybe have it paralyze that specific mob and let you walk free? (maybe potentially a multi cast?)

The disease should definitely be switched from <Z>

Is the create Bone Charm Necessary? Casting a spell to make an item seems lackluster, maybe one of two alternatives?
A. Make a Bone Charm part of Bone Crafting?

B. Make the spell work to where you cast it on an undead mob and MAKE it tameable?

Lastly (Sorry guys, I know its a lot to take in)
Make sure Light/Unarmored Bone armor is craftable, we don't need mages walking around in heavy bone armor, this is the exact reason we still don't have dwarven mages.


Not tearing it apart, I actually love it! Just putting in my two cents
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by CinisterD »

Also, its somewhat difficult to not take damage from the explosion spell.

This may be in part to the slow spell casting,giving the mob extra time to come to you, and even though the damage is minor, its frustrating none the less.

Tints seem to have a drastically lower effect with necros. To where a solid addy staff will buff a sorcerer 50-60+ damage, it would help a necro maybe closer to 30, this may also be due to the fact that there isnt a high circle (7,8) missle attack. (observation, not complaint)
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Bugbo »

Be nice if disease also halved a monsters STR, DEX, and INT the way it does to players.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by eggmceye »

mobs only have hp, int, mr - no dex and no str.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by eggmceye »

right, definitely fixed ICH and probably the staff not working too
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Flamesoffire »

All seems to be working chef! Only one question, Necromancer spells are still slow-ish. With a oak, They are even still slower then sorc spells using an addy, Is that supposed to be like that?


I'm assuming it is since Necro spells are better suited for multiples of monsters, While Sorc has a wider variety for single mobs. If all the AoE spells were as fast as Sorc, Would make Necro's into slaughtering beasts. Could clear maps in half the time!


Not trying to nit pick, Just curious.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Eclips »

Necros seem be lacking in their ability to solo hunt. Haven't tested with an undead pet, but I don't know that it will help much.

I dont know how this compares to sorcery but right now the speed ICH of and black ligtning is still a lot slower than lower level spells.

Can you make it so using Hail of bones increases your skill in the mean time. I was trying to tame a pet, but it required skill in necromancy that you can't achieve currently (Undead lord, 95% necro).

I don't think Necros should have access to both undead and regular summons, but for purely asthetic reasons. Maybe you can shuffle some spells around to make the summons on magery part of the sorcery class, or just ditch the necro spells and make magery spells summon undead if you have any necro skill.

Along the same lines, maybe make Polymorph change you into a zombie dragon?

Soul Transfer seems to only be useful in a very specific sitation. In a 1V1 or a partyV1 fight with a high hp, high damage target. Eg blood queen blood/shadowlords. It will be great in those situations, and though I assume it will be disabled vs bosses, it will probably be too good in those situations, and useless anywhere else. If there are other mobs attacking you, 5% of your hp isn't gonna do anything to keep you alive as a mage, and VS high priority targets its essentially a damaging AEP that doesn't it scaled by MR and can't fail. The spell is cool in theory and asthetically, but its just not where it needs to be.

Spread Disease should debuff damage given or at least (AS and ability to overcome MR) and move the defensive debuffs to Acid wind.

Just to separate Lightning and Black Lightning further, maybe scale the damage back and add another bounce or two. Maybe make the lightning black/purple instead of black/grey (Better asthetics).

New Spell idea:
Command Death: If target dies within 10 seconds, it is automatically revived at 33% health. Should at least be usable on undead pets, but party members would be nice too.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Bugbo »

What type of damage do the necromancy spells do? Is the damage the same type for similar spells?
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Flamesoffire »

Was thinking, Wouldn't Hall of Bones.. Be the same-ish thing as VAMT?
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by eggmceye »

I can definitely confirm necro spells were slower than sorc - was an error in the spreadsheet! fixed now I hope

Some good ideas in this thread. Like I keep saying, I'm personally not really attached to necros and only really reserve the right to come up with the method of collecting the spells. Stuff like VYR if you have % in necro is an easy & good idea.

I wonder how long this exercise in pseudo democratic game design is going to last?
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Severian »

eggmceye wrote: soul transfer - C4 - Mani Por Tym
drains life over time - exact specs: target loses 5% of health per sec over 5 sec, caster gains 5% per sec (% of own health, not target) - both caster and target are frozen during transfer

CIRCLE 8 :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull:
hail of bones - C8 - Corp Yelm
uncoded - but aiming to make a DoT AoE - so basically a highly powerful clone of quake, but does damage over time rather than instant - have to think of ways of keeping your enemies still before casting - maybe this spell could cast mass hold on them all ?
I think these spells need cooldown effects similar to VAMT so that they can only be applied to a specific target roughly once every 2 minutes. The same immunities that special mobs (like the Blood Queen) have should also apply to these.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Keighn »

I need to get some serious testing done but everyone else seems to have done a lot of grunt work for me. Again I'm testing lvl1 but I can do a quick lvl 1025 Necromancer test if need be. Anyways Djanno the undead bard and crew thought on this a little:

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Some of My Testing

Post by Keighn »

I'm sure everyone has tested necros to death.. mind the pun. Anyways here's some of my basic findings since I'm new to it:

Cold Hands of Death (des mani)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: 4-25 damage
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: 465-471 damage

Death Missile (corp por)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: 10-14 damage
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: 598-609 damage

Breath of Death (bet corp hur) - gives Bad Breath
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: Works like boiled eggs 30 seconds
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: works like boiled eggs 30 seconds

Greater Cold Hands (vas des mani)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: 15-30 damage
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: 878-891 damage

Summon Lesser Dead (kal corp des I)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: Summons - Skeleton, Zombie, Ghost, Mummy, Ghoul, Skeleton Mage (@
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: Summons - Skeleton, Zombie, Ghost, Mummy, Ghoul, Skeleton Mage (@20 seconds)
###Like all summons I think durations should be higher and based on int. Would love to see what the forumula is for each summon/cloning.

Corpse Explosion (flam grav corp) - unsure of radius when casting or of explosion (assume explosion is 1 sq radius from mob affected)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: 25-35 damage
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: 25-35 damage
*Tricky spell but for high int mages such low damage for a 4th circle spell and later mobs.
###Kind of wish Necro/mage/pets weren't affected by the explosion as per diablo II. Non party or others who cares. Damage needs to be higher for high int mages IMHO.

Soul Transfer (mani por tym)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: Necromancer frozen while draining life from target (also held @5 seconds)
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: Necromancer frozen while draining life from target (also held @5 seconds)
*Unsure of the transfer rate or whether mob affected can be bled and poisoned as well.

Summon Greater Undead (kal corp xen II)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: Summons - Skeleton Archer, Skeleton Warrior, Phantom, Wight, Vampire, Spectral Reaper, Lich, Demilich, Undead Warrior
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: Summons - Skeleton Archer, Skeleton Warrior, Phantom, Wight, Vampire, Spectral Reaper, Lich, Demilich, Undead Warrior (@30 seconds)
###Like all summons I think durations should be higher and based on int. Would love to see what the forumula is for each summon/cloning.

Giblet Golems (in corp kal)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: - summons giblet golem (heart, eye, heart, horn, blood, tooth, steak, brain for @8 seconds)
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: summons giblet golem (heart, eye, heart, horn, blood, tooth, steak, brain for @8 seconds)
*God the duration is too short on this. I don't know the hp on a giblet golem but I'd assume low since its just pieces of flesh.
###Suggestion: Without knowning the specifics of the giblets... vastly increase the duration based on intelligence. This is probably more of a spell of preservation and I don't know gibbers hp/as/def/mr. Still, the more int a necromancer has perhaps make the giblets more powerful. Duration should be based on Int. If they are lasting too long then Necro needs to invis or perhaps necro needs a spell of Ashes to Ashes dust to dust Some sort of Desummon spell (Tomb Anchor or Eternal Rest) Radial or all summons/including corpses animated.

Create Bone charm (wis corp xen)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: skull, bones, corpse creates bone charm (for taming undead pets)
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: skull, bones, corpse creates bone charm (for taming undead pets)
###Suggestion: higher the intelligence more charms are made as taming will be a pain in the ass if you have to rely on the scant bones/skulls/corpses. No more than 5 charms though.... so perhaps every 250 int up to 1 extra charm. then again someone could always stand on lava while being ressed to get hundreds of corpses or kill crocodiles all day.

Animate Corpse (In Xen)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: Animates monster corpses (ones that were used to make meat) @indefinite duration
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: Animates monster corpses (ones that were used to make meat) @indefinite duration
*Note: Relogging or turning invisible makes all corpse pets disappear. Can banage corpses. corpses get poisoned.
###Suggestion: Corpses can't be bandaged or healed.... to allow for eventual destruction instead of an army of hundreds of red/black dragons. (though that would be kinda cool... I'll test it and see how OP it is)
Also, perhaps zombie pets are gray like statues animated but with glowing red aura to distinguish as corpse army. No a light gray either maybe dark gray or even some hideous color like a dark violet or green...)

Spread Disease (In Bet Corp)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: diseases in a radius ??? for @ 10 seconds
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: diseases in a radius ??? for @12-15? seconds

Cone of Acid (In Corp Hur)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: 22-36 damage
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: 489-515 damage
*I Love the color of this spell.

Black Lightning (Corp Ort Grav)
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: 12-31 damage
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: 479-510 damage
*Looks like it works close to normal lightning as far as I can tell. The bolts look pretty cool.

Hail of Bones - NOT CODED/PROGRAMMED YET!!
Level 1 Human Mage with 25 int: damage
Level 1,029 Draconian mage Pimped out gear with 5,200 int+: damage


**Note on damage. From trying the lvl 1 Necromancer I quickly noticed that if mobs have a higher MR then spell damage is cut down quite a bit. That looks like it functions correctly but then again I'm not one who plays mages a lot and knows the ins-outs of them as far as dmg vs. MR goes.

Summon Lesser Dead (kal corp des I) (3rd Circle)
Summons - Skeleton, Zombie, Ghost, Mummy, Ghoul, Zombie cow, wight

Summon Undead (Kal Corp Xen II) (4th Circle)
Skeleton Mage, Skeleton Archer, Skeleton Warrior, Vampire, Phantom

Summon Greater Undead (kal corp xen III) (5th Circle)
Summon - Spectral Reaper, Lich, Demilich, Grateful Dead, Skeleton Jester

Summon Master Undead (Kal Corp Xen III) (6th Circle)
Summon - Zombie Dragon, Skeleton Dragon, Undead Lord, Undead Warrior, Ancient Vampire

Really looks like we need undead to fill some gaps... but based on my old spread sheet that's how I'd divide em. (leaving out u4 lich/skeleton)
Last edited by Keighn on Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Necromancers - NOW TESTING on ALPHA server

Post by Keighn »

Maybe another 1st circle spell that has a duration:
Grave Robber
You find corpses, skulls, bones more often while digging up graves. That's usually the first step in necromancers and uh those making corpse golems like Dr. Frankenstein.
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