the new versatility/dual classing thread

"eventually EUO will get to the point its (sic) unplayable" - Dudle

Moderator: EUO Moderators

the new versatility/dual classing thread

Postby eggmceye » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:37 pm

dual classing is staying and hopefully if monk/druid/necro/bard make it in then there will me more viable dual classing options other than the safe & boring whatever/priest
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
 
Posts: 10084
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby Gulnar » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:21 am

TheOneGuy wrote:
eggmceye wrote:class breakup of lvl 50+ on reg

cyan is fighter mages : total 2

raw counts:
[Fighter:100::Mage:61::] => 2

so i have a fighter mage thats 61% mage but hes a joke tell at least 150 i would like to see fighter mage get a buff but anyway who is the other fighter mage? (Kiarii is my fighter /mage)


That'd be me. Not that I've played in 6 months, and it's been probably a year and a half since I was playing regularly. I stopped playing initially when egg first threatened to take piety from mages; I wanted to wait to see how that shook out. Then priests were added, I played a little, but felt kind of screwed by UA going classless (I'd always played as a monk), and I wasn't sure what to do with my classes. Fighter wasn't doing me much good, since I didn't need it for UA, but I had a ton of enchanted soulbound fighter gear. Probably should've switched to priest/mage if I'd continued playing, but maybe things will change again now.
kaiser's Tranos: The rulers of the aceint times lands, the most powerfull and feared carnovours, or whore they.
Gulnar
on lolpatrol
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:42 pm
Location: St. Louis

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby eggmceye » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:58 am

it's a shame fighter/mage doesn't work that well due the req for int/str
maybe I could make some item or something that gives a spell effectiveness boost to fighters
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
 
Posts: 10084
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby Evanthia » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:10 am

eggmceye wrote:it's a shame fighter/mage doesn't work that well due the req for int/str
maybe I could make some item or something that gives a spell effectiveness boost to fighters

I don't know how well an item like that would work, considering it'd either be rare (in which case dual classing warrior/mage as a beginner would be generally useless) or it would be common (in which case it'd be better to make a battlemage class/race with buffs to spell casting time without a staff (not as fast as staff, but at least twice as fast as without) int and str).

But that's just my opinion.
They say insanity is bad, but it hasn't killed me yet.
~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~_~
Finished contests:
Scavenger hunt; Winner: Rusty
Bounty Hunter; Winner: Kin
What's that GOLEM?; Winner: Sephiroth

Current contest:
http://www.forums.swut.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4052 ((Triple Competition, great prizes!))
User avatar
Evanthia
buying vamp LS of any kind +5
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby Keighn » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:06 pm

I'm actually in the process of testing out a fighter/mage. I made this alt a month back I think before many of the changes. Turns out I'm bloodkin and fighter/mage will probably be a nice sharding character. Currently more of a fighter but that will change as I raise up my int to match strength. I figure I'll plateau my dex at around 300.

True it be that pd is a different beast than reg so go figure.
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
 
Posts: 4936
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: From the depths of Oregon he returns.... KEIGHN!!!!

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby 1[WoWz] » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:51 pm

VYR would be a nice fighter buff if unarmed was a fighter skill again. I've always been tempted to do a fighter mage build which kept VYR on all the time and fought with gloves of attack.
IGN: 1
User avatar
1[WoWz]
MACRO > me
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:48 pm
Location: Southern California, USA

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby eggmceye » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:18 pm

probably best build for f/m would be 25 dex then split the rest between str and int (much the same way a sword fighter or ua splits it between str/dex) - then use EU for dex and use a pole or mace which gets most of the stat dmg from str. Use a spear and a sentri shield, and mostly be a fighter with mage/sorc as secondary and I'm pretty sure you'd be extremely powerful.

lvl 100 reg human f/m
38 lvl spent at vers
61 lvl at str/int shrine

str 213 (30+61*3)
dex 25
int 208 (25+61*3)

base mr approx 259
base hp approx 266

this is all w/o items. heavy armour not only def but mr, +20MR items would add +600 mr to yr base ~ 850mr
User avatar
eggmceye
hello
 
Posts: 10084
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:55 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby Keighn » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:39 pm

Now if more people would test it.
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
 
Posts: 4936
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: From the depths of Oregon he returns.... KEIGHN!!!!

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby TheOneGuy » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:01 pm

eggmceye wrote:Use a spear and a sentri shield

:LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON: :LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON:

good luck getting a sentri shield under level 200+ (you need to trade 2 band rings vamp XJ/IJO or vestments to get one)

well of course you could just ask for one but everyone else has to grind there ass off or read 10,000 level 15 maps to get one

your funny egg anyway the point is to make a fighter (class that needs gear to work at all) / Mage (can run in with just a staff and rape all life) you have to already have epic gear for it to work well and as epic gear is in the talons of a high levels and they never let it go the fighter mage option only REALLY opens up for you after your at least on the Scoreboard but more than likely only if your in the top 20-30 players but they wont start new char because its a waste of time (get a few blood/shadow level drops or crappy drops on a low level) for most of them anyway so im sorry egg the highest level fighter mage is mine at 84(at least i think so) and im thinking that it will stay that way for ... well for ever really :--;:

and keighn you wont have more people test it cause you have to be a high level to test it in the 1st place


and yes every time i go to play my battle mage i cry a little my thought was giveing improved cast time with a fighter weapon if you have 100% skill in weapon and in the school of magic i think that would make it more inviting to low levels with out needing to get the epic gear you can never get

(you already do this with hot keys attack with addy staff change to LS cleave change back it would just make it less of a pain)
all i want is a test server for maped then ill be happy ...
TheOneGuy
Post in swahili or SHUT THE FUCK UP!
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:03 pm

Re: shitfight - removing versatility & dual classing with priest

Postby DarkIllusionist » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:51 pm

*I havent bothered reading all the posts, so if this has been posted before, i dont really care.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think the main problem with ANY dual class, with the obvious exception of priest, is the fact that you must spend a relatively large amount levels for stat points, coupled on the levels spent at versatility shrine, for comparitively little or no gain.

Take a fighter for example. Joe is a level 80 fighter, he currently has ~300 Strength, ~220 Dex, and 25 int. One day Joe decides he wants to dual class as a fighter mage.

Joe spends 38 levels on the versatility shrine, and spends 13 levels on the int shrine, this is a bare minimum if im correct. So, after a good 51 levels spent getting the required stats, training up, yadayada, he gets...

- A few cool utility spells, Sanct Lor, EU, KOP, KPY, IP, EP... But wait a second, almost all of these can be easily replaced by equavalent scrolls and potions, making this pretty much irrelevant for anyone with inscription and/or a decent amount of cash lying around.

- A couple of summoning spells. KXC, KVX... Unlike the above, these cant be replaced with mundane and easy to get items (As far as i can tell), but they are useless anyway, not only are they are quite weak, especially with low intelligence, but they drain so much XP to make them worse than useless if your trying to level up.

- A good amount of damage spells. XC, VOG, IVPY... Beyond useless because your int is so low and you wont be weilding a staff.

- Some debuff spells. XJ, AEP... Potential to be useful, but nope, your int is again far to low for it to be useful, and you wont be weilding a staff anyway.

In other words, Joe gets nothing useful, now he COULD spend more levels to get his int up, but that just further decreases his firepower in comparison to someone else of similar level, while again gaining little.

Some solutions to this: (Just throwing it out there, no need to shit bricks because half these suggestions will probably ruin the game)

More mage buffing spells.

So far EU seems to be the only one that comes to mind, and thats somewhat useless because its a pretty small buff, and will only give you a tiny amount of dex unless you pump int. Think speed buffs, auras of death, making monsters hit less, reflecting damage. Maybe only allow a limited amount of buffs on at one time.

More, useful summons.

None of the summons are useful at the moment, and even if they were, they drain far to much XP, on that note...

Summons draining little/no XP.
That way a fighter-mage combo could summon dragons, etc, without worrying about getting subpar XP. This would add another decent perk out of becoming a fighter mage, instead of just pumping strength for superior firepower.

Removing inscription and similar
Alright fine, not removing, but at least nerfing. So far scrolls, potions, rods and the like completely defeat what should be one of the main perks of a fighter mage, that is, the utility spells. A fighter-mage can go invisible, but hey guess what! You can do the exact same thing with a cheap ass scroll that practically every high level has coming out of there ass...

Diminishing stats sound kinda cool

Eh... Dual classing in general is encouraged by diminishing stats.

Spell power and/or duration based on both levels AND int
One of the other factors discouraging fighter-mage dualclassing is that valuable levels must be spent on intelligence for many of the spells to be even close to useful. And if to much levels are spent on int you become a crappy fighter-mage combination with the firepower of someone half your level.

If Spell power and/or duration were based instead on levels AND int, you would be able to pull some use out of spells like EU, XJ, AEP, without spending to many valuable stats on intelligence.

Random perks

Players should get random perks just by being a certain class really. Fighters should naturally gain a little AS/Defence benefit, mages could get a natural MR bonus, rogues could get more benifit out of poisoned/barbed weapons, priests could grant you certain resistances to poison...

Items that encourage dual classing

Daggers that speed up spellcasting time, bows that require tactics to use effectively, staves that do good melee damage, swords that can backstab, etc. If theres an epic bow that requires tactics, its going to encourage a rogue to go fighter, if theres a sword that can backstab, a fighter could get sizable benifits out of going rogue. Wow a +9 sword? To bad, you have to get 80+ magery or its ancient curse is going to cut your own arm off!!! Theres lots of creative things you could do.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, thats just my opinion on the issue.
ChildProdigy
User avatar
DarkIllusionist
LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:30 pm

Re: the new versatility/dual classing thread

Postby Keighn » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:52 am

Inscription takes a while to get up and even more so with the massive delay per scroll made. Unless you just like afking and spending the gold this can be a real pain. SL scrolls invis you for about 10 seconds while VSL is a good 30 seconds. (or ticks on the clock counter ingame). I suspect potions are near the same while dust of disappearance is either 15-20. I need to do an accurate count. Sharding with IMJ spell is less costly than spending time and cash on scrolls.

Its small potatoes gold wise so I don't have much of an argument. The only other thing I could think of is its just different and more of a challenge than doing the same damn old xxxclass/priest.
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
 
Posts: 4936
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: From the depths of Oregon he returns.... KEIGHN!!!!

Re: the new versatility/dual classing thread

Postby Keighn » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:52 am

What about a spellsword or arcane blade. I wouldn't make the damage that great but if it combined the effects of a staff and a sword it might be more viable for a fighter/mage.

Arcane Sword 2-8 dmg Slashing 2.2 speed Flurry
Arcane Axe 2-8 dmg Slashing 2.3 speed Cleave
Arcane Mace 2-8 dmg Bludgeoning 2.4 speed Thunderclap
Arcane Spear 2-8 dmg Piercing 2.1 speed Bloodbolt

*Increased spell casting time about 3/4 the time of a staff.

If that's not enough maybe make them similar to the leeching ability like the bloodkin.

And/or.... they can bind their spell of choice usage to the weapon. It goes off at the same rate as an enchanted weapon except its attuned to the players intelligence for damage/effect.

Naturally, the chance to cast the spell is based on their magery/sorcery % in that spell.
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
 
Posts: 4936
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: From the depths of Oregon he returns.... KEIGHN!!!!

Re: the new versatility/dual classing thread

Postby Shadw » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:56 am

Well The whole spell timer cooldown could be remedy by giving weapons/armour a chance of giving say a "of casting" attribute kinda like leeching works draining mana but wether the weapon or armor gives decreased casting times like a normal stave would.

Well This may be a crazy suggestion but well here goes Making the whole % in class cap's affect those whom dual class

100%fighter/100%mage example

100% fighter your main dual classing with mage say you have 100% mage somehow making the amounts of the % affect the classes you choose not just what you can do but battle mages Higher% in magery as second could instead of draw damage not just entirely from the int score also with 100% in fighter skills as primary,spells gain % of the of increase from str affects so instead of just being affected by in for fighter/mage it'd draw 50% str 50% int for spell damages.

Dunno how hard it would be to code in or wether or not, atleast it was suggested

NightHound, Curing Life one Death at a time.
http://armoury.swut.net/plyr.php?NightHound

ArcaneHound, Casting for the future.
http://armoury.swut.net/plyr.php?ArcaneHound
Shadw
Kodiak has probably banned me by now.
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:52 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: the new versatility/dual classing thread

Postby IT IS S » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:19 pm

Doesn't int+str give you insane MR?
I only have some abstract ideas for changing the multi-classing atm...
There is no cheesing that is not skill
User avatar
IT IS S
LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: the new versatility/dual classing thread

Postby Keighn » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:06 am

The formula has been changed. I do believe str and dex give the same MR now. Don't quote me on that though.
User avatar
Keighn
Stop posting already --;
 
Posts: 4936
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:13 am
Location: From the depths of Oregon he returns.... KEIGHN!!!!

Re: the new versatility/dual classing thread

Postby Rusty76 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:32 am

Keighn wrote:str and dex give the same MR now.


I quoted you LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON

Yea you are right they do.
User avatar
Rusty76
Posting from my ass computer.
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Cleveland, TX USA

Re: the new versatility/dual classing thread

Postby DarkIllusionist » Sat May 01, 2010 12:17 pm

I dont see how str + int would be any better than just int though.
ChildProdigy
User avatar
DarkIllusionist
LAUGHING OUT LOUD LIKE A MORON
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:30 pm


Return to EUO Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests