RFC - artifacts

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RFC - artifacts

Postby eggmceye » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:54 pm

this thread started in the gm's forum but here it is now in the dev forum, don't wreck it now


raiden's been bugging me about revising artifacts - I did a quick revision but nothin really changed much

so what are the main problems with them?
- stats (str/dex/int) on them are too low for their lvl req? better off wearing a non arty item
- vamp weapons are better always?

some artys are obviously good, eg someone paid $20 for a mageband (player traded house for it)


Overall I'd like to basically
- make the rare findable artys more desirable
- make lower level artys too - for lvl 30-50 say
- make artys drop appropriately for your level - eg lvl 40 gets the lowbie arts etc
- make craftable artys as part of crafting revision part 2 for smith, armourer, tailorer, woodcrafter from findable single use recipes - low mid and hi lvl arties
- just have a lot more artys in general
- maybe have set bonuses but this is CODING yuck will put this off indefinitely

right now I'm mostly interested in solid examples of what arties are no good as is
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Re: artifact thread

Postby Khelben » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:58 am

eggmceye wrote:tony's been bugging me about revising artifacts - I did a quick revision but nothin really changed much

so what are the main problems with them?
- stats (str/dex/int) on them are too low for their lvl req? better off wearing a non arty item
- vamp weapons are better always?

right now I'm mostly interested in solid examples of what arties are no good as is


Well, from my experience, I'd choose a blackrock/adamantium/vampyric +6 weapon over any untinted artifact (excluding a select few).

Having a br/adam/vamp tint and/or a good enchantment (XJ, AEP, IJO) on a regular weapon outweighs the extra stat/nv-bonus you get from an artifact effectively making most artifacts obsolete unless you happen to find them with a good tint at which point they become the best weapons in the game.

As for artifact armors:
-The +str/dex/int are too low.
-+Def isn't as an important stat as MR and +str/dex/int.
-Mage-, Warrior- and Rogueband are extremely good due to their big MR increase.

Used http://www14.atwiki.jp/euoeuo/pages/23.html#id_e6c8e941 as a reference, which is not completely up to date. As always, these are my opinons/findings based on my own playing experience and are subject to being totally wrong.
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Re: artifact thread

Postby Raiden » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:51 am

I need to read the forums more, didn't even realize you made this thread..

-The arty weapons are not worth sacrificing a tint. Also the following tints are never used: diamond, runed, addled, venom.
-So with a large portion of focus put on trying to find a br/addy/vamp/barbed weapons, artifacts without a tint will often be disregarded.
-But you solved a major problem by allowing artifacts to be tinted.
-Maybe you could add more artifacts in general, and a specific arties themselves would have tints. example: 'the black blade' (blackrock ls+7/vf ench) or something.
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Re: artifact thread

Postby eggmceye » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:56 pm

hey at least there are 4 good tints
what would be a good benefit for a non tinted item? how could I improve the others or even nerf the good ones? I dunno how many times I've nerfed vamp. I actually considered giving all vamp a -3 to it and it would probably still be popular.

also does your lack of a response about armour imply you agree with khleb? (I think it does right) - I mean:
* +15 stat doesn't go with +7 ac, as far as individual level req goes
* most ppl prefer Mr to ac right? so would rather wear a +4 mr shirt to a +15 dex & 7ac artifact?
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Re: artifact thread

Postby Raiden » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:27 pm

Imo- defense can be just as good as MR in some circles, because you can grind shadow warriors infinitely as well. So both are valuable; and you could have diff sets, mr+stat combo, as well as def+stat combo armours

The stat bonuses are just not high enough to bother sacrificing a tint, but perhaps different bonuses, weapon of truesight, some out there items.. Creativity isn't my strong point atm.
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby eggmceye » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:28 pm

bamp
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Heikki » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:00 pm

How about random artifact generator:

- Item get random d3+1 properties:

- Properties: Defence, Attack, Stat, Enchant, Vigour, Mana leech, MR, NV, Tint

Weapons can get: Attack, Stat, Enchant, Mana leech, Tint
Armours can get: Defence, Attack, Stat, Vigour, MR, NV, Tint
Jewerly can get: Defence, Attack, Stat, Vigour, MR, NV, Tint

Defence (from 5 to 7), Attack (from 7 to 9), Stat (from 30 to 36), Enchant (Any, Allso: VF, KXQ etc), Vigour (from 15 to 20), Mana leech, MR (from 5 to 10), NV (from 3 to 6), Tint (Any, allso crystal)

Example:
Player get random weapon with 2+1 properties:

Longsword: Attack +8, Str + 34, NV 4

There should allso be artifact name generator:
Example:
Longsword: Attack +8, Str + 34, NV 4 would be something like:
Devastating Colossal Longsword of Vision

Devastating from attack bonus, colossal from str bonus and vision from NV bonus


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2nd idea:
One use artifacts:
Example:
Potion of swordmanship --> Raises Swordmanship skill cap with 5%


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby eggmceye » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:14 pm

I'm more interested in tarting up the old ones actually
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Severian » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:47 pm

Make a "legendary tint" (that applies to all artifacts) that gives:

- for armour: (i) +1 nv (not gold so it doesn't effect rogues), and (ii) copper tint effects
- for weapons: (i) old runed (i.e., current no-tint) effect, (ii) new runed effect

Of course, all artifacts can also drop with other tints (as they do now) ... with double tints ofc counting twice ...
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby eggmceye » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:04 pm

eggmceye wrote:
so what are the main problems with them?
- stats (str/dex/int) on them are too low for their lvl req? better off wearing a non arty item
- vamp weapons are better always?


some artys are obviously good, eg someone paid $20 for a mageband (player traded house for it)

Overall I'd like to basically
- make the current rare findable artys more desirable
- make lower level artys too - for lvl 30-50 say
- make artys drop appropriately for your level - eg lvl 40 gets the lowbie arts etc
- make craftable artys as part of crafting revision part 2 for smith, armourer, tailorer, woodcrafter from findable single use recipes - low mid and hi lvl arties

right now I'm mostly interested in solid examples of what arties are no good as is
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Heniek » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:27 pm

eggmceye wrote:- make the rare findable artys more desirable
- make lower level artys too - for lvl 30-50 say
- make artys drop appropriately for your level - eg lvl 40 gets the lowbie arts etc


Idea is pretty simple I think(just idea - I'm not talking about implementation), bonuses given by artifact should be random, but appriopriate to monster who dropped artifact. Example: we have three copies of Chopper(artifact axe), one dropped by goblin, second dropped by blue dragon, and third dropped by blood wyvern. Stats on those artifacts could be like:

Goblin chopper - +1 AS, +9 str, maybe tint

Dragon chopper - +5 AS, +19 str, maybe tint, maybe enchant

Blood wyvern chopper - +8 AS, +30 str, maybe tint, maybe enchant
It's always funny until someone gets hurt. Then it's just hilarious.

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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Severian » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:30 pm

The problem with artifacts is that most don't specialise 1 thing ... the ones that do ... people use ...
Instead most artifacts increase 2 or more things (though not as well as a regular item would increase 1 thing) ... and in most cases ... the 2nd thing it increases is def ... you know how that goes ...

Any artifact armour that only gives a str/dex/int and def bonus ... no one really bothers with ... they just use a 30+ stat item instead. And if the bonuses apart from def are better on regular items, players will use the regular items ...
Any artifact weapon that doesn't have a good enchant or tint ... no one really bothers with either ...
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Severian » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:31 pm

Heniek wrote:
eggmceye wrote:- make the rare findable artys more desirable
- make lower level artys too - for lvl 30-50 say
- make artys drop appropriately for your level - eg lvl 40 gets the lowbie arts etc


Idea is pretty simple I think(just idea - I'm not talking about implementation), bonuses given by artifact should be random, but appriopriate to monster who dropped artifact. Example: we have three copies of Chopper(artifact axe), one dropped by goblin, second dropped by blue dragon, and third dropped by blood wyvern. Stats on those artifacts could be like:

Goblin chopper - +1 AS, +9 str, maybe tint

Dragon chopper - +5 AS, +19 str, maybe tint, maybe enchant

Blood wyvern chopper - +8 AS, +30 str, maybe tint, maybe enchant


egg doesn't want suggestions ... just wants to know which ones suck atm ... i think
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Keighn » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:59 pm

Reposting artifact related posts in 2010 thread.

Heniek wrote:Randomly generated artifacts. Instead of having artifacts with always same components, some of them could be generated randomly. Example:

Uberly great sword of doom:

falchion
+7 AS
random enchantment
random strength bonus

So it could be falchion +7AS, XJ enchant, +9 str, or it could be falchion +7AS, VOG enchant, +30 str.

eggmceye wrote:rusty and I already fleshed out a system from random artifacts about a month ago - even tho it's a feature that's easier said than done
could probably do random multi ench weapons & armour but probably not with names - the names need to be indexed and there is only a limited number of spaces for new items left
maybe the name of the weapon would be based on the combo of enchants

eg
plate dex+mr=plate mail of the dugong
str+mr=...of the golem
int+mr=...of the eagle



Keighn wrote:Ah, similar to diablo but with an euo twist. Need ideas for indexing possible items?


eggmceye wrote:maybe some ideas for stat combos and their names yeh, eg str+mr=plate of the golem, or what have you


Keighn wrote:I had never heard the name dugong before. We need sea cows in the ocean. I'm going to try to keep this to EUO mobs.

plate dex+mr=plate mail of the dugong
str+mr=...of the golem
int+mr=...of the eagle


Just notepadding combinations will look through items/mobs later:
str+MR
str+int
str+dex
str+def
str+AS

dex+MR
dex+int
dex+def
def+AS

int+MR
int+def
int+AS

AS+DEF
AS+MR

Regeneration?
Mana Leech?
Enchants?
Tints still a prefix for items?

Is there only going to be 2 stats?
Whats the min/max
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Keighn » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:32 am

Here's my own compiled list a few years ago of what the artifacts had or what Ithink they had:

Old Artifcat Listing:

Ironfist_gi_shirt (gi shirt) +3 DEF, +15 str
Ironfist_gi_pants (gi legs) +3 DEF, +15 dex
Ironfist_cap (cap) +3 DEF, +5 MR
Ironfist_gloves (gloves) +7 AS/Dmg, VOG(chain lightning)

Frenzy_coif (chain coif) +3 DEF, +3 NV
Frenzy_shirt (chain mail) +3 DEF, +15 str
Frenzy_leggins (chain leggings) +3 DEF
Frenzy_gloves (chain gloves) +3 DEF
Frenzy_boots (chain boots) +20 dex

Nightstalker_shirt (Leather armour/tunic???) +3 DEF, +10 MR
Nightstalker_leggins (leather leggings) +3 DEF, +15 dex
Nightstalker_cap (leather helm) +3 DEF, +5 NV
Nightstalker_gloves (leather gloves) +3 DEF, +15 Dex
Nightstalker_boots (leather boots) +3 DEF, +15 dex

Shardcrystal_aegis (field plate) +3 DEF, +10 MR
Shardcrystal_greaves (greaves) +3 DEF, +15 dex
Shardcrystal_helm (full helm) +3 DEF, +4 NV
Shardcrystal_gauntlets (gauntlets) +5 DEF
Shardcrystal_boots (plate boots) +3 DEF, +10 dex

Bent_Buckler (buckler) +3 DEF
Superior_Shield +4 DEF, +5 MR
Ancient_Heater +5 DEF, +10 MR
Sentri's_Shield +6 DEF, +15 MR

Warriorband +5 DEF, +15 str, +10 MR
Rogueband +5 DEF, +15 dex, +10 MR
Mageband +5 DEF, +15 int, +10 MR

Crocodile_Hunter's_Ring +3 DEF, +15 Dex (ring)
Swampies (swamp boots) +3 DEF, +20 dex
Estorrath's_Vestments +15 int, +15 MR
Boots_of_Blinding_Speed continued blindness, continued fast speed
Thinking_Cap +30 int, -20 str, -20 dex

Estorrath's_Walking_Stick +20 int, +20 VIG, +5 MR
Keller_Shank xj(curse), ivpy(quake), vog(chainlightning)

+4s:
Kazaduhm_Kleaver +4 AS/Dmg, +20 str, +3 NV

+5s:
Dirge (warhammer) +5 AS/Dmg, +15 str
Yew_longbow +5 AS/Dmg, +15 dex

+6s:
Faulinei_Felblade +6 AS/Dmg, +4 NV, Vampyric tint, leeching
Frederick's_Right_Hand +6 AS/Dmg, XJ(Hex or Curse)
Frederick's_Left_Hand +6 AS/Dmg, AEP(paralyze)
Rapier_Wit +6 AS/Dmg, +20 dex
Hoe_Of_Destruction +6 AS/Dmg, FG(Flamestrike)

+7s:
Bonecrusher +7 AS/Dmg, +20 str, IVPY(earthquake)
Thundercracker +7 AS/Dmg, VOG(chain lightning)
Grim_Reaper +7 AS/Dmg, KXC(summon daemon)
Dragonskewer +7 AS/Dmg, +20 str
Ripley's_Claw +7 AS/Dmg, +20 dex
The_Long_Kiss_Goodnight +7 AS/Dmg, AEP(paralyze)
Facewound +7 AS/Dmg, +7 DEF
Soulstealer +7 AS/dmg, IMJ(soul trap)
Sin'Vraal's Scepter (crystal) confusion, +7AS/dmg, +15 str

+8:
Dead Sun Rising (morningstar) +8AS/Dmg, +15 STR
Dante's Ruin +8 AS/Dmg, +15 Dex
Vorpal Blade +8 AS/Dmg, +15 Str
Legend +8 AS/Dmg, +15 Str
Marsha's Malet +8 AS/Dmg +15str
Triple Crossbow (crossbow) +8 AS/DMG, +15 Dex
Noble Foil +8 AS/DMG, +15 Dex

That's what I used to know. There's been changes so someone let me know. Also corrct me or add to what item is what via type (mace, dagger, etc)
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Severian » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:49 am

Severian wrote:The problem with artifacts is that most don't specialise 1 thing ... the ones that do ... people use ...
Instead most artifacts increase 2 or more things (though not as well as a regular item would increase 1 thing) ... and in most cases ... the 2nd thing it increases is def ... you know how that goes ...

Any artifact armour that only gives a str/dex/int and def bonus ... no one really bothers with ... they just use a 30+ stat item instead. And if the bonuses apart from def are better on regular items, players will use the regular items ...
Any artifact weapon that doesn't have a good enchant or tint ... no one really bothers with either ...


Actually, with most artifacts, for the level at which those artifacts can be used, they are good. Its just that players will gain more levels at which point there will be better options. For example, Shardcrystal Gauntlets have a level 56 requirement and give +15 str, which is good for someone who is around level 56. However, once gear with higher stats become available, most would feel the need to upgrade (assuming they don't want/need the added def).

So its more a case of what level range a current artifact is meant to cater to, and whether you want artifacts to be better than most other items (in the same wear location) or not - or where the artifacts rank in terms of utility over all available items.
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Keighn » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:53 am

Armour types not covered:
Padded
Studded (though that's more of a tint than anything)
Ring
Scale
Banded
Plate

There's no banded, scale, or ring boots/gloves/greave/helms so probably just pair those up with chain or plate.

Nightstalker gear is kind of all over the place. I can see why the tunic is so coveted due to the +10 MR. I picture a black leather suit so perhaps it should be pretinted Darkhide. Cap is fine (dunno why I picture it with nightvision goggles attached but I do). Boots would be cool if they enabled the gnome stealth ability to wearer. For a medium lvl artifact I guess the +15s to dex is fine.

Ironfist set has no boots. I always pictured it best with sandals but those don't exist. Cap is fine IMHO also mental fortitude and all that. Other than the MR and vog gloves, it seems more like a low/med artifact.

Frenzy boots should give +3 def as well.

I can't think of anything special for shardcrystal other than tint the armour crystal.

Shields are awesome, except I don't see what good the + def does. Blocking is so shady to me it could backstab me in a room full of light and security guards.

Keller's Shank has always been a mystery to me.

As you can see by that old list, hardly any +4s or 5s and the majority sitting at +6 and +7 for weapon artifacts.

Anyone have a suggestiong for what + stats should be per + of the artifact?

I do hope Grim Reaper is a scythe. All of the +8s really have low end stat bonuses compared to the rest. +25 would be a quick fix.

Dragonskewer should do increased damage versus all draconic types (including hydras).
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Severian » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:09 am

Keighn ... that list is updated ... the stats on some are different now
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby 1[WoWz] » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:29 am

I think a lot of lower level players could get use out of even the lower end artifacts but they aren't able to get their hands on them. A high leveler player will always hoard even the weakest of artifacts because it simply is an artifact and is so rare. I also believe the +15 stat is too low on artifacts.
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Re: RFC - artifacts

Postby Keighn » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:27 am

Anyone with a large list of artifacts please post their stats or just correct the ones I posted with the updated stats. pm me with it if need be. Also tell me the type of gear (ie rondel, labrys, longsword, tower shield, etc etc etc).
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